Raymond Franz and UN (page 12)

AlanF

MadApostate said:

: RFWorshippers will even humble themselves to glorifying a post of someone they dislike if it may possibly be a positive for their "god".

I think that this perfectly illustrates the mindlessness of knee-jerk reactions.

A rational person will acknowledge rational arguments no matter their source. An irrational person will not. In fact, one of the marks of irrationality is discounting arguments only because of their source.

Clearly, Julie rational and MA is not.

Jehovah's Witnesses are highly trained to accept arguments based on source alone. Thus they accept nonsense from the Governing Body simply because they virtually worship the GB. The content of Watchtower articles, no matter how stupid, is accepted without question. Similarly, all information critical of JWs is rejected without consideration and without thought.

It's clear that MA is still a JW -- if not in fact, then emotionally.

I will now sit back and watch the foaming at the mouth we've come to expect.

AlanF

MadApostate

BUT hs:

I am both "half-larned" AND a "simpleton".

But at least I'm looking down, not up!

-----------------------------------
Edit to save post:

Welcome AsswipeF:

I've been wondering where the HighPriest was hiding. You must have read my post on your buddy JA's thread.

[:>)]

hillary_step

MadApostate,

But at least I'm looking down, not up!

In which case be very careful of light poles, a sharp bang on the head might......on the other hand...

HS

AlanF

So, MadAsshole, where are your 'arguments' now?

The foaming has begun.

AlanF

Farkel

MA,

: I have no friends here, because I want none.

Considering the many wonderful people who participate on this board, I think you've overcome gigantic obstacles and made a monumental achievement.

Farkel

"I didn't mean what I meant."

anewperson

After I noted Ray Franz had said in In Search Of Christian Freedom that he didn't see anything wrong about the UN promoting world peace a person called "ONE" posted:
"Ray Franz left the WT office in 1980
Application to the UN was in 1991 when his uncle, Fred Franz was either dead or about to die."

The inference may be that I lied, that ISCF does not have Ray Franz saying what I said. Read the book yourself. Ray wasn't saying to promote the UN over God, and I'm sure like all of us he would never want the UN to take over all religion worldwide, but he did comment on the UN's peacemaking being okay, and, yes, ONE (hope you read this), the UN existed long before 1980.

I'm sure Ray has solid reasons for writing books but otherwise keeping a low profile. We do not "worship" Ray, Madap, but we do "respect" him.

If I had the chance to suggest just one thing to Ray it would be for him to condense the main points he made in C of C and ISCF and stir in a few new comments on things since (such as regarding this liason with the UN 1991-2001), then sell the books by the zillions -- a kind of new "little blue bombshell" that would counter the book THE TRUTH That Leads To Everlasting Life which he authored.

Perhaps, though, Commentary Press has him under a contract that will not permit that. In any case, he has the respect of the Free Christians movement. Let those who would demean what he has already done that is so helpful for countering the Watchtower simply do more on and of their own to also counter it. That way you will not tarnish his good name and will simultaenously build your own credibility.

AlanF

I think that castigating Ray Franz for not living up to "our" expectations is extremely foolish and shortsighted. Most people who leave the JW organization fade into the woodwork and never say a peep. This is certainly true of plenty of former officials who know where mounds of skeletons are buried.

I have mixed feelings about how to think about these people. On the one hand, I understand perfectly their desire to fade away and not think about their past experiences. On the other hand, I would very much like for them to unbury the skeletons and contribute to the body of facts and lore that show the Watchtower up for what it really is.

I think that the best thing is for people to be grateful for whatever good is done by people like Franz, and respect their decision to keep some things private.

Some people on this board have been terribly hurt by the JW organization and I fully understand how angry they are and how much they want any and all information to come to the surface to expose, or even destroy, the JW organization. It would certainly be fitting retribution for more than a century of abuse.

Unfortunately, it happens to be the case that a lot of people are emotionally needy, whether by nature or training, and one way or another will find a high-control group to join that provides the crutch they need to get through life. People who provide such crutches are almost always emotional abusers -- otherwise they wouldn't be in the high-control business -- and so one way or another, some people will jump into an abusive situation. This is sad, but a fact of life.

The JW organization is certainly abusive, but not nearly as abusive as certain other organizations are. I suppose that we should be grateful that we didn't happen to join up with a worse group, and that our braindead relatives still in the JW organization are not in some worse and wildly whacky group like Scientology. That's little solace to many of us, but life often hands out a rotten hand.

AlanF

teejay

Most people who leave the JW organization fade into the woodwork and never say a peep.

My thoughts EXACTLY, Alan. Ray didn't have to say a word. He could’ve come to certain truths about the organization, left, and just got on with his life. He didn't do that. The fact that he said anything -- reaching back to help those he could -- was a tremendous gift to us.

Farkel

anewperson,

: Perhaps, though, Commentary Press has him under a contract that will not permit that.

Uh, what? Ray Franz is Commentary Press.

Farkel

"I didn't mean what I meant."

anewperson

Wow, Farkel, I didn't know that! That being the case why doesn't he put out a small booklet that blasts the Watchtower yet again to pieces. It would sell big time, help him and his wife out, liberate lots of JWs, and in general make people happy (except the WTS)?

Raymond Franz and UN

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