Jesus.....God or God's son? (page 25)

possible-san

It seems that an insincere person does not know that he himself is insincere.

Spike Tassel

The heart is more treacherous than anything and is desperate. Who can know it? — Jeremiah 17:9.

I, Jehovah, am searching the heart, examining the kidneys, even to give to each one according to his ways, according to the fruitage of his dealings. — Jeremiah 17:10.

possible-san

Spike Tassel.

Do you use the Scriptures in order to hide your bad faith?

Spike Tassel

I have faith in the SCRIPTURES. That is what faith means to ME.

mdb

Matthew 4:10
Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord(YHWH) your God, and serve him only.' "

"...Worship the Lord" (Kyrois G2962). The original word in the Greek is not YHWH in this verse. Another example of the HWT translation attempting to change scripture to align with their doctrines.

I am well aquainted with the trinitarian statement of making Jesus Greater in glory than God, equal in nature to God , lower in position to God but it is just unbiblical rhetoric and thus meaningless as well as being a plateful of oxymorons.

They don't believe Jesus is greater in glory and His position was lower while He, as a man, humbled Himself. Jeus said He was going to be lifted up and would again have to glory He had before (John 17:5). You have a poor understanding.

reniaa

hi MDB

Jesus was directly quoting hebrew scriptures! At the time of him saying it greek scriptures didn't even exist and YHWH was in all the hebrew scrolls they used so he would have said YHWH and meant it.

Jesus is still subordinate to God in heaven too

1 Corinthians 11:3
Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.

written after Jesus left earth.

Acts 5:31
God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might give repentance and forgiveness of sins to Israel.

again glorified to God's right hand but not God himself.

1 Corinthians 15:27
For he "has put everything under his feet." Now when it says that "everything" has been put under him, it is clear that this does not include God himself, who put everything under Christ.

God is not under christ

Romans 8:17
Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory

again after jesus goes to heaven giving him equality with men as co-heir with them to God.

And then Jesus gives all this authority back to God

1 Corinthians 15:24
Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.

So Jesus still subordinate to father and his God before, during and after his time on earth.

Reniaa

allelsefails

Reiaa - I agree with a lot of your points here on Jesus statements about himself, but we are supposed to be witnesses of Jesus. After Jesus' ressurrection he was to be worshipped. (Again same Greek word as "worship" God") Do you want the list of scriptures that support these positions? Or can you answer these points. .................... It is kind of funny how you skip all the points you don't have an answer for and claim that one scripture reveals the entire truth of the matter, when other scriptures must be considered.

reniaa

hi allelsefails

any points i miss are not deliberate, I think we can be witnesses to Jesus without making him into God or putting Jehovah in the back seat of old news. If you read the greek scriptures the writers do not get rid of God to put Jesus in an higher position. Look at simple things like using 'blessed be' only for God and not Jesus in the greek scriptures.

Now to address proskuneo that you would have only translates to worship....

The word "proskuneo" can mean either "worship" or "pay homage" or "do obeisance".

"proskunéo¯; contracted proskuno¯´, fut. proskune¯´so¯, from prós (G4314), to, and kunéo¯ (n.f.), to kiss, adore. To worship, do obeisance, show respect, fall or prostrate before. Literally, to kiss toward someone, to throw a kiss in token of respect or homage. The ancient oriental (especially Persian) mode of salutation between persons of equal ranks was to kiss each other on the lips; when the difference of rank was slight, they kissed each other on the cheek; when one was much inferior, he fell upon his knees and touched his forehead to the ground or prostrated himself, throwing kisses at the same time toward the superior. It is this latter mode of salutation that Gr. writers express by proskunéo¯. In the NT, generally, to do reverence or homage to someone, usually by kneeling or prostrating oneself before him. In the Sept. it means to bow down, to prostrate oneself in reverence, homage."- Strong's Greek and Hebrew Dictionary

please check in strongs dictionary if you do not believe me but on this one JW's are quite correct the word has many meanings and it is wrong to only translate it as worship.

Reniaa

possible-san

reniaa, the teacher of my Hebrew,

Why isn't "Elohim" of Psalms 82:1, 6 "the majestic plural"?

And, why is the "God" of Exodus 7:1 the plural?

Please teach me.

Jesus.....God or God's son?

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