by watson 347 Replies latest jw friends
Burn for gods sake will you stop with the insults??
Insults are the only things that get a response here. You post facts that challenge the case for socialization? You actually waste your time to write something well thought out and referenced?
It gets ignored
You throw in a bit of spice? A baboon's ass? A turd in a bowl?
At least people respond.
Filet mignon can be cut with a butter knife.
Tough steaks need a meat hammer.
You people have thick skulls.
BTS
Beks, did you and Watson finally get a room?
You seem to have a scientific mind......
Do you know what came after "the big bang?"
The Big Cigarette.
No Burn. Republican are into "facts" out of the GOP dictionary, (see: Gay people will burn in hell, love Pat Robertson) S corporations, tax shelters, anything BUT people. Republican have evolved too. They like money and capitalism, not people.
Thats the beauty of democracy. Eventually, it will get voted out when its gets out of kilter. The outrage is by a group that suddenly is in the minority, when they spent the better part of the last 15 years believing that they were in a big majority, and they simply don't want to believe it.
I explained in simple terms that healthcare is not a commodity. Healthcare is a right that an enlightened society should expect to get. If I get sick, and I have a job, and I pay taxes, then I better damn well have access to some healthcare that isn't going to freaking bankrupt me!
Why is education not a commodity? Because dumb people don't make good citizens. Sick and dead people don't make good productive citizens either.
.....
You know, at least JW apologists don't come on threads like this and say "All ex JW's are mean apostates!" lol
Ok, back on topic.
Freedom is not simply the ability to survive...true freedom is the ability to have a quality of life that is above servitude.
Freedom is the right to act according to ones will without being held up by the power of others.
The only true freedom is negative freedom. The so called positive freedoms actually create a violation of negative freedoms of others. None of us in the US live in servitude to others. We are all basically free.
Profit from death is a moral hazard and a country that thrives on these hazards has become morally defunct. sammieswife.
Who is profiting from death in the healthcare industry? The insurance companies? How are their decisions to cover or not cover a procedure any different, from a functional point of view, than Medicare's?
BTS
Anyone that wants coverage can simply purchase it.
Burns, you ask me to show you one of your lies. Anyone that is a even a very small risk can not purchase health insurance. When I was 31 and unemployed, I tried to buy health insurance and was turned down, I had no health problems, my back injury was ten years old and I had no back problems.
Philip
For a number of years my kids were on ARKids, healthcare for children of parents that could not afford it in the state of Arkansas. Probably about 5 years. Their father completely abandoned us. My family either could not or did not help. I am forever grateful for the help. I was eligable as well and benefitted. I did not abuse the system.
As far as any other aid I recieved, I was told by the state that I had to get employment by the the time the youngest child was two or I would lose benefits. I eventually worked my way off the system, and my children were on healthcare that myself or my ex provided.
My ex-husband was made to pay back the state making monthly payments, until the youngest child turned 18.
Anyway, I have typed and erased more than what I am posting. It's been a long day and I am going to turn in.
I am not for funding life long deadbeats, I don't know how they do that over in Europe or Canada or Australia.
I guess that is not factored in, maybe it's of no concern as everyone seems happy with the care they themselves are getting.
No Burn. Republican are into "facts" out of the GOP dictionary, (see: Gay people will burn in hell, love Pat Robertson)
There you go with Republicans again. I might as well say Democrats are into "facts" out of the Donkey dictionary, (see: Meat eaters will burn in hell, love PETA)
Neither of these have any bearing with the ideas being discussed. You hate the R party? Great. So do I. I just hate them less, because when it comes to these matters, they at least say they believe in certain principles I agree with. The Dems don't.
By the way, logic dictates that with socialized medicine, the Repubs will be running your healthcare about half the time. How do you feel about that?
The outrage is by a group that suddenly is in the minority, when they spent the better part of the last 15 years believing that they were in a big majority, and they simply don't want to believe it.
Recent polls prove you wrong. The latest Gallup poll for example shows that self identifying conservatives outnumber liberals in all 50 states. Recent polls show that people do not favor the socialist option. And the dynamics are different too. The Dem party is far larger than the number of liberals in the country, and the Rep party is far smaller than the number of conservatives in the country. Strange but true.
I explained in simple terms that healthcare is not a commodity.
No. You made a bald assertion. Guess what, you are doing it again. The error is not that we treat healthcare too much like a commodity, it is that we don't treat it enough like one.
Healthcare is a good or service that is bought or sold. To the degree that these goods or services are pretty much standard and fungible, they are commodities.
Is there a shortage of food in this country? We throw away vast amounts. We don't have large scale problems with starvation in this country, we have problems with obesity.
Drinking water? You can drink it for free at any public water fountain. Even when it is produced by a municipal government, it is still paid for the same as if it was privately produced.
Housing? If anything, the downturn indicates an oversupply.
Clothing? Some of us go to Saks, others to Wal-Mart, but we all pretty much get the clothes we need, even if not the clothes we want.
However, unlike the examples above, an enormous portion of the health care market, is not private, but public. It is the problematic one. Yet, even where private, it is a product that is in most cases provided through our jobs and we have no choice in who we buy from and how much. No one mandates the minimum size for a product in a store. Yet most states mandate minimum insurance coverages. Please note how different this is than the other life sustaining items in the list above. It is very difficult to shop around for exactly what you want to pay for when it comes to health insurance. You can't buy less, it is mandated. You are forced to buy what is mandated, and usually, you don't have much choice even then, your employer chooses for you. How many people choose employment based on the specific insurance company they use? My guess is precious little.
Think about that next time you are exposed to the enormous variety of choices you are exposed to at your nearest supermarket.
BTS
you know guys, doctors go to college for 10-14 years and they surely want to get paid more than a janitor!
