Confessing

by STRUGGLE 116 Replies latest jw friends

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  Simon

  Awe...c'mon - you don't think I'm that clever do you you?
  I wish I could come up with stuff like that on purpose but I'll have to leave that to the masters!
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  OrangeVale Bob

  Hi Struggle,
  When I went back to the org. for the second time in my life I was involved in a fairly long term relationship. Well, 2 1/2 years is long term to me. She was intelligent, attractive, well educated. She had very high morals, a great sense of humor, a good job and was in great shape financially. We also were in love with other.
  I terminated the relationship when I re-associated myself. I thought it the appropriate thing to do at the time. 1 1/2 years later I drifted away from the org. It took me about 3 or 4 years to stop thinking about her. It's been about 7 years since I dated her. She's married now and I hope she's happy. The only time I think about her now is in my dreams. Kinda hard to control those dreams. I haven't dated in 2 years, just can't seem to find anyone I really like.
  I don't know what I would do if I could do it all over. I, like you still feel loyalty to the org.
  Both of my parents died while they were fairly young and I still miss them terribly. Seeing them again isn't really what motivates me, though. I just want to do the right thing. I want to please Jah. Sometimes it's difficult to know what that is. I wish I was wiser than I am.
  I know there is no help here for you. I just wanted you to know that you are not alone.
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  STRUGGLE

  Dear Orange Vale Bob

  Thank you so much. Yes I still have loyalty to the org. It is what I know and belive in. I understand whay you are saying. What if you would have stay with her. You know what Jehovah says about becoming unevenly yoked.

  I still want to please my creator, I love him and I stayed. He is it for me. (Jehovah) There is no one else. Even though the flesh is weak.

  That is the crossroads I am at now. Everyone has given me choices and things to think about. But the final choice is mind. I will do the right thing, I feel Jehovah is angry with me, but that he has not given up me. You know what the Bible says, we leave Jehovah he does not leave us.

  Again thank so much.

  Edited by - Struggle on 29 December 2000 18:24:7
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  RedhorseWoman

  If I did'nt go to the hall, then I would not go anywhere.

  Well, Struggle, this option is not necessarily a bad one. I found that I could not continue attending the Hall because of the lack of love, the lies, and the hypocrisy I saw (and tried to deny for years) in one congregation after another. The scripture that states that you will know God's people by the love they have amongst themselves kept haunting me. I could see that the "love" was talked about and written about, but it did not exist in reality.

  You mentioned:

  we leave Jehovah he does not leave us.

  This statement is very definitely true, and we do NOT leave Jehovah simply because we no longer attend the Kingdom Hall or because we disagree with what the WTBTS proclaims. Amazingly enough, I've found that my relationship with God is better now (now that I don't follow the "rules" for a spiritual relationship as laid out by the WTBTS) than it ever was when I was an active JW. Jehovah doesn't leave us....nor does He base His love for us on what building we choose to utilize when we praise Him. I've personally found that I have my best conversations with Him when I'm out in the woods, or tending my animals.

  One more thing, have any of you had someone close to you die and would like to see them in paradise? I have, that weighs on my mind also, about coming clean.

  Yes, I have lost those who were close to me. I've also experienced things that allow me to know that I WILL see them again. In order to do this, I don't feel that anyone other than Jehovah has the right to my confessions.

  I always came "clean" to the elders. They never particularly cared about ME as a person and what I needed to regain strength. In fact, their "help" was more damaging than anything I had ever experienced in my life. I don't believe that we should go against our conscience or that we should just shrug off matters in which we feel we have committed a wrong. My only point is that Jehovah is the only one who can forgive us. He is the only one who can help us to become whole again and to heal.

  Forgive me for being blunt, but my experience has been that confessing to the elders is simply a means for them to maintain control over individuals. When a person puts their life in someone else's hands, they are, IMO, denigrating their relationship with God and becoming weaker rather than stronger.

  Please don't take this as putting you down, or in any way minimizing your confusion. I'm simply speaking from my own experience, and I'm hoping to spare others some of the pain I experienced by doing what the WTBTS said was the "right" thing to do. It wasn't. It was damaging.
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  STRUGGLE

  Dear Redhorsewoman

  I agree with you 100% when you stated Jehovah is the only one who can forgive us. Things are getting clearer. Until I talk with them, I really don't know what will come out. I know people who have had bad experiences with the elders, I have not as of yet. I have some very loving ones at my cong. But as I've stated before, everyone reaches a point where they get tired, if you know what I mean.

  I am really and truly sorry you had to go through the things you did in Jehovah's org. No one not even the elders should be a stumbling block. My motto is that if I had not committed no "sin" then I would not be in the situation that lies before me.

  I remember at one convention, a talk was given a few years back about how the elders should treat people. This has stuck with me, It stated elders should be harsh never, firm sometimes, kind always.

  I know we live in an imperfect world. But my hope and trust will to the best of my ability lie with my heavenly father, Jehovah God.
  What can I say, I love him, I am mad at myself for hurting him.

  Again I am sorry that you had to endure so much pain and hurt.
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  thinker

  Dear Struggle,
  (from thinker)
  Let me try to summarize what evryone has been saying.
  The WTBTS claims to be the only true channel between Jehovah and man and no one can know God's wishes except the GB. According to them, you cannot pray to Jehovah one-on-one and have Him guide your life DIRECTLY.
  Most of us here reject that for various reasons.

  My question to you is "Does this make sense to you?"
  Can you as an individual be guided by God without any "middle man" ?

  It seems you currently feel that Jehovah and Jehovah's organization are one and the same. You feel that forgiveness from Jehovah requires forgiveness from the elders. To you, loyalty to the org. means loyalty to Jehovah.

  Is it the organization who wants you to stay loyal or is it Jehovah?

  Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to change your beliefs. I only want to understand where those beliefs come from, Jehovah or the WTBTS? If you prayed to God and He has guided you to stay in the organization then do so. I only want your assurance that it's Jehovah that's guiding you on an individual basis. On the other hand, most of us here believe it's possible to leave the JW's and still have a relationship with God. Only YOU and God know what's right for you.

  It's a major decision and the organization makes it very tough. Do they make it so hard because it's God's will or do they only want to maintain their numbers?
  I wish you the best in whatever you decide. I think we all feel upset about the pain you are experiencing.

  thinker
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  thinker

  This is (Thinkers Wife)
  Up for grabs. All this talk involving 1 Cor. 7 got me curious. So I got out the Bible and read the whole chapter. I suggest anyone who answers this, do the same. Because I would like some informed conversation about it.

  In my reading, I noticed that Paul designated some of his words as being from the Lord and some as being from himself. The way I read it, from verse 25 on to the end of the chapter are words that Paul himself designates as his own words and suggestions.

  Any feedback would be appreciated.

  TW
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  ianao

  To STRUGGLE...

  One thing that I have noticed about the JW religion is that in it's attempt to completely separate itself from xtianity it sometimes makes you forget things that many hold dear...

  1 Timothy 2:5 "For there is one God, and One mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, ..."

  STRUGGLE, ONE God, ONE Mediator. Noone goes to the Jehovah but through Jesus. It doesn't say, SOME MEN, it doesn't say MEN WHO ARE ANNOINTED, it says simply, MEN. You are as human as any member of the governing body. If you don't think so, then shame on 'the society' for putting themselves beside their MEDIATOR. The faithful and discreet slave is to SHARE KNOWLEDGE, not to SHARE RESPONSIBILITIES with Jesus.

  Edited by - ianao on 30 December 2000 10:36:21
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  STRUGGLE

  To Thinker

  Or course I can pray to Jehoavah God one-on-one. And yes I can be guided by him. As I have mention before man cannot direct his own foot steps. Jehovah wants me to be loyal. I feel the elders do indeed have my best interest at heart. I feel this is his arrangement. I value the input and things you have given me to think about. I don't necessarily feel that loyalty to Jehovah means loyalty to his org. in the sense I have to blab and tell everything to the elders. I do feel Jehovah are using these men from time to time.

  Please know that talking to all of you does help this great pain that I am in. For that I am truly grateful.

  To Ianao

  At this point and time I can't leave the org. and serve Jehovah on my own. Reading Prov. 25:13, 14 and James 5:16 helps me
  some. Please understand that I know Jehovah is the final "Judge".
  He knows my thoughts, intention and my heart.

  Well I am off to work. Another new therapy, I've been working a whole lot.

  Edited by - Struggle on 30 December 2000 11:22:22
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  Frenchy

  Struggle
  You seem to have a good attitude. Your problem is not simple by any means and the solution will have to take into consideration not only what may be termed as ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ in the strictest sense of the word. The solution will have to be YOUR solution in that it will have to mesh with your philosophy on life and your circumstances all of which make you unique. There are very few absolutes.
  The Scripture at 1 Cor 7:39 is often cited as the basis for the rule for Witnesses to marry only Witnesses. (The NIV renders that part of the verse as: “but he must belong to the Lord.”) I find it interesting that the WTBS does not view this as anything BUT a rule inasmuch as the congregation will not take any judicial action against one that ‘violates’ this rule. You are ‘marked’ by a talk that features that Scripture. That ‘marking’ ends as soon as you marry that person. Interesting, isn’t it?
  As has been pointed out in another post on this thread, Paul here gave a lot of ‘personal’ advice which he was careful to isolate or at least identify as such in contrast to what the Holy Spirit moved him to write. So what exactly did he mean? The NWT cross-references this verse to those in Deuteronomy and Nehemiah where the Israelites are forbidden to marry non-Jews. It’s interesting that Paul’s advice could be seen as a contradiction of those same verses inasmuch as if we take Paul’s words to mean that a widowed woman was to marry only a “Christian”. If this widow happened to be a Jewish woman she could now marry a non-Israelite or Gentile if he were a Christian. This would be in direct violation of the Hebrew law since it prohibited Jews from marrying Gentiles. Some will quickly point out that the Mosaic Law had now been fulfilled and that Christians were no longer under that law. Correct. If so why cross-reference that verse to the Law, then? Obfuscation.
  There are instances where this ‘law’ was ignored even among the Jews. The first instance of this is with Rahab. She was most certainly not an Israelite but yet she married Salmon, a Jew with God’s blessing inasmuch as Jesus came through her line. Then there is the account of Ruth. Elimelech, a Jew of Bethlehem left his land with his wife, crossed the Jordan and took up living in Moab where his sons married Moabites. A direct violation of the law. Did God send down fire from heaven? On the contrary Ruth, one of the Moabite women once married to a Jew also ends up in the lineage of Christ inasmuch as she marries one of Rahab’s sons, Boaz, another Jew.
  HOWEVER, if you are going to remain a faithful follower of the WTBS then it would be wise to seriously consider this ‘rule’ inasmuch as your mate may not see things eye to eye with you on many things such as ‘worldly’ holidays, you’re being out in service every weekend, your being at the Kingdom Hall three days out of the week along with time spent with your Bible Studies and time for Circuit Assemblies, Special Day Assemblies, District and International Conventions and Kingdom Hall quick build projects where you will volunteer your time as well as those months when you will be Auxiliary Pioneering. He may not appreciate sitting there at the Kingdom Hall with you on Sunday mornings and hearing the public speaker make fun of his religion or condemn it and all others besides yours to eternal damnation. There is also the problem of bringing your children to all of these things while he might want them in his church as well. Then if one of your children needs a blood transfusion you will have to do your very best (even to the point of kidnapping your child from the hospital) to see to it that he does not receive this medical treatment. Your husband may not understand this.
  You have many things to consider and I wish you well
  

  -Seen it all, done it all, can't remember most of it-