Borg court: 1st session

by sd-7 111 Replies latest jw friends

  • sd-7
    sd-7
    Do you think God wants you to stay in a marriage, maybe have children, with someone who does not understand you and will only be happy with you if you attend meetings?

    I wouldn't presume to know what God wants, exactly. I do actually think there are plenty of easy ways to get her mad enough to leave altogether, if I really wanted to get out of it. She's got quite a temper. I don't know, man. I just want to know if there's a way to meet her halfway. If there's more to this than just my loyalty to the WT. If not, well...that day will come, you know?

    ... I agree that religion is associated with my guilt and my shame. I still assert that some good things came from all of this. I was able to experience life in a box and then find that the world is just so much bigger than that box that it's unbelievable. It opens the door to all kinds of possibilities.

    I don't really know what else to say. I do know that leaving my wife is not on the table right now. Because I don't have enough pieces of the possible future available to me right now. It's not wise to abandon an arrangement like this without giving patient, serious thought to it. There is more to this woman than the cult. I can feel it. I may be able to find it someday. If not...well, we'll cross that bridge when we get there.

    --Christopher

  • awildflower
    awildflower

    You make an excellent point about repressed feelings. And your right, it's a fine line.

  • FuzzyPaul
    FuzzyPaul

    Folks, SO what, I believe it and it really works for me thus I dissent.

    1.) My wife and I have never gotten along better than we do now since becoming Baptists and by orders of magnitude.

    2.) I have 100’s of friendly friends

    3.) that don’t spy on me in book stores or the library in case I pick up a Christian book by another religion.

    4.) My son has a dozen friends his exact age and over a hundred nice kids in the youth group. In five years in the WT he had 1 friend visit per year on average.

    5.) My disabled wife gets out of the house to do crafts with other people.

    6.) My wife makes things for people in need - she was always giving, now she is in a group that lets her do this.

    7.) I am free to study ANY religious material without restriction.

    8.) I go to Catholic Mass or Synagogue whenever I want to and there are no “Elders” committees to answer to for it.

    9.) We go to weekly dinners.

    10.) I go to a weekly men’s breakfast and can do a devotion on my choice of subjects.

    11.) I go to a monthly Men’s dinner where we discuss projects we choose to do.

    12.) Last year The Men’s group hosted “Let’s have a ball where we set up games and gave out hundreds of balls of all types free.

    13.) My son goes on outings such as one where he hung by ropes and stuff.

    14.) My son goes to basketball camps put on by Church members that can play.

    15.) My son goes to monthly Christian Roller Skate nights with hundreds of other kids.

    16.) My son can go to summer camps, college, professional sports, the music industry, into the military - our choice.

    17.) My son is getting Bible study - not indoctrination.

    18.) Our Pastor goes to Presbyterian services on Saturday evenings.

    19.) I go to any other Church, any time, for any function with impunity.

    20.) I feel I can trust people again.

    21.) I am respected.

    22.) I am loved as I am and actually really feel loved.

    23.) I do not have guilt over sin. Guilt would actually tell me that I am not putting full faith in Jesus payment for my sins.

    24.) Christianity is a relationship with a person.

    25.) Religion is based on rules and procedures.

    26.) God is OK with procedures if they make you feel closer to him.

    27.) God is real and interested in me.

    28.) Jesus is real and I know I feel his presence.

    29.) I can choose which discipleship class I want in any subject offered.

    30.) I can request a class on another subject and can lead the class myself.

    31.) I sing in a men’s quartet where one of our ladies (She sang in Carnegie Hall) plays for and teaches us.

    32.) I can choose to sing in a choir, play in the band, why is the WT against that?.

    33.) I can do holidays or not.

    34.) I believe in defending my country and my fellow man.

    35.) I am allowed to tell my politicians that I am displeased and to do it differently.

    36.) I can choose to sing on stage and choose any song of tens of thousands in the sacred music genre.

    37.) We have a family of hundreds of people that I feel a part of.

    38.) I can go to Church in sneakers and jeans with a tee shirt and do.

    39.) I can go to church in a suit and tie and do.

    40.) The ladies have “Cinderella’s Closet” where they give away dresses, shoes, accessories for prom and hair dress and makeup the girls.

    41.) I no longer see the world in the black and white world of the Watchtower. Saying that means one is still seeing me through that set of eyes.

    42.) I know the WT religion better than 99 % of JWs and can disprove ALL their major doctrines.

    43.) Watchtower doctrine creates contradictions.

    44.) Watchtower doctrine is based on proven editorial dishonesty.

    45.) Watchtower doctrine is arbitrary.

    46.) The New World Translation is corrupt and dishonest and I can prove it.

    47.) I am not told weekly that I am in the “truth” and destruction otherwise.

    48.) The Baptists organize to support charity not to control members.

    49.) I am not feared into feeling like a “Bad little boy.”

    50. The Watchtower religion is the antithesis of Biblical Christianity thus I don’t have any of the same old JW religious stuff in a different name.

    51.) Christmas is not a pagan holiday because Jesus is not a pagan deity.

    52.) Jesus was not born on Dec 25 but the Magi did visit Jesus on Dec 25 (See bethlehemstar.net for that).

    53.) The Romans knew the solstice to the day (Stonehenge like) Christmas is several days later.

    54.) Where’s the love in leaving children in every port of call to fend for themselves?

    55.) Saying there are no absolutes requires absolutes.

    56.) Having other moral codes requires a code giver usually not ourselves even though we think so.

    57.) Saying there are no superior ideas is a superior idea.

    58.) I am not required to have perfect doctrine or much doctrine to get salvation.

    59.) Accurate knowledge that changes?

    60.) Accurate knowledge gaining to get saved is against Jesus own statement.

    61.) Jesus did not say that it was within OURSELVES to know how to predict outcomes, it was within HIMSELF.

    62.) If I move, I will choose to go to any Church of any denomination which works for my family.

    I am really happy in my local family of Christians whichever Church they attend. I have friends in many denominations. Baptist dribble is based on thousands of scriptures listed in The Baptist faith and Message which has very limited explanatory notes. I fear nobody and nothing because I fear only God.

    What’s to not like?

    Witches, homosexuals, evolutionists, atheists, liars, thieves, are always trying to force others into their mold to be what they are. That is not free. And those groups have progressively and intentionally altered society to allow their ideas but not Christian’s ideas. Those type of people are bullies and I really don’t like bullies. I will pray for you and your happiness.

    Blessings,

    Paul

  • Think About It
    Think About It

    FuzzyPaul......I was way too harsh and I apologize. My background with the Baptists should not have been brought up. I'm glad you found something that makes your family happy. I guess the point I was trying to make is......people here have come from many backgrounds other than JW. Leaving JW's doesn't automatically mean they are looking for some other religion to takes it's place. People were giving Christopher some good counsel & advise. It doesn't necessarily have to be bible based or Christian themed. I doubt seriously a therapist would start talking to someone about what the bible says on the matter.

    You seem like a good guy and it bothers me now that I lashed out at you. I'm sorry and hope you forgive me.

    Think About It

  • awildflower
    awildflower

    Witches, homosexuals, evolutionists, atheists, liars, thieves, are always trying to force others into their mold to be what they are. That is not free. And those groups have progressively and intentionally altered society to allow their ideas but not Christian’s ideas. Those type of people are bullies and I really don’t like bullies.

    I'm sorry my friend but you have to put Christians in that category to. I'm happy that you are happy, I truly am. But you and others could live that same life with out the "Baptist" title. The problem here is all these Titles we put on people. Drop the titles and just live good lives. And I don't know, but come election time, I see the candidates more worried about pleasing the "Christians" than witches, homosexuals, evolutionists atheists liars and thieves. The way I see it so called "Christianity has been running the show for a very long time and "bulling" the rest of the world into seeing it their way.

  • isaacaustin
    isaacaustin

    Awildflower and FuzzyPaul, both of you make valid points. I have to agree Awildflower that Christianity has gotten a bad name from what you have described, bullying. In the WT the rules are that you will accept whatever the WT is currently teaching...or else you will be disfellowshipped (hell) and will be destroyed forever at armageddon. Many other groups teach you must subscribe to certain essential teachings or else, while not being cut off, you will end up in hell. Both views are wrong.

  • leavingwt
    leavingwt

    FuzzyPaul:

    Witches, homosexuals, evolutionists, atheists, liars, thieves, are always trying to force others into their mold to be what they are. That is not free. And those groups have progressively and intentionally altered society to allow their ideas but not Christian’s ideas. Those type of people are bullies and I really don’t like bullies. I will pray for you and your happiness.

    That is an interesting group of persons being criticized. Upon first glance, the list appears contrary to your previous Point #41

    41.) I no longer see the world in the black and white world of the Watchtower. Saying that means one is still seeing me through that set of eyes.

    -LWT

  • Married to the Mob
    Married to the Mob

    Christopher

    Good luck for tomorrow! In the words of stanley fletcher, "bide your time and don't let the barstards grind you down!"

    Provided YOU know you living a good honest life, thats all that really matters.

    IF there is a maker, a supreme being, you will be able to stand up and honestly say you led a good life.

    Do you need a label? be it JW, baptist whatever. No idea, only you know that one!

    Take care

    MTTM

  • minimus
    minimus

    SD, I just saw this. WOW!!!!

    I feel for you, I really do.

    When you challenge the elders by not parroting their statements, you automatically portray yourself as independent and possibly even "apostate"....Good luck, my friend!

  • sd-7
    sd-7

    Well, I'm still sick, so they moved back the next session again. On antibiotics now. Sucks. Wife got mad at me again for not opening the door to some JWs working the area. Accused me of not loving the brothers, being judgmental. I retorted that JWs are nothing but judgmental--why else do we measure spirituality by field service time, an unscriptural concept? "We're better organized than the first-century Christians were," she said. "Oh, so you mean better?" I replied. "Of course, the apostles didn't have a publishing company to take care of, so they didn't have to monitor book sales." As always, the response was to continue attacking my character and asserting that I don't love the brothers. Even pointed out that she loved me first.

    She seems to have forgotten that all those loving brothers weren't still there for her when she got DF'd. But I was. I did so knowing she was with someone else. That's love that requires a little more than a short conversation at the KH. But meaningless to one under their spell.

    Elder called to reschedule. Said he didn't want to have committee with wife without me present, then asked to speak to her again. I eavesdropped and heard him mention the possibility of visiting our home--something he did NOT mention to me when we spoke. Revealing. Given the manipulation going on here, you might as well have her committee separate. The only thing they want to do is turn her against me, and she's more than willing to go along with that crap. Her wedding rings are right here beside me, for frak's sake. Perhaps that was an honest mistake, but it still hurts, at least under the current circumstances. Maybe on an average day, in an average time, I'd understand. But not now. ...

    Anyway, so...guess we'll actually meet with them on Monday or Tuesday. I'll let you know. Sickness has been longer than expected. Wife keeps unbelievably erratic schedule for herself and the baby (think 3 a.m. on weekends, 12-2 a.m. during the week), so it's hard to get real rest around here. I love 'em both, but they're really not giving me a whole lot of dignity and respect right now. So much for winning one's husband without a word. I get barked at like a dog when I get on her nerves, but I never yell at her for any reason. I'm not perfect, but at least I give her that dignity.

    Speaking of which, I have to pick them up from the KH. I'll get an earful for not calling in to listen to the meeting. So, marriage is crap-tacular, health is spotty, and...I'm kinda broke, actually. It keeps gettin' better. You folks take care.

    --Christopher

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