Faders are indeed a very large doormat

by moshe 132 Replies latest jw friends

restrangled

After being in the "public eye" for way too many years under different circumstances, both with the witnesses and without, I am happy to sit back and just work with family.
Sometimes, quiet works better than shouting from the roof tops making a scene.
I will tell you this, my husband who was never a witness but fed up with my connection did this: He had us all in a small Honda civic, and we went out and bought the biggest fresh Christmas tree we could get and strapped it to the roof. He made a quick turn in to the local Kingdom hall as they were letting out on a Sunday, rolled down his window and shouted Merry Christmas as he slowly made his way through the parking lot.
I was shocked, and of course there were enough people that recognized me as my mother's daughter in the passenger front seat. I heard about it for a long time afterward and it did nothing for any cause what so ever, other than label people as opposers and haters.
One thing he did do was write the PO about how they get to the Governing Body scenario. The PO wrote a 10 page type written letter back to him, which he handed off to my mom first. She read it first and said....."Good lord, he was never able to answer the question."
So which in your opinion might have had more impact?
I have learned in my life, those shouting the loudest, are usually the most insecure about themselves and their position.
r
yesidid

Moshe, we are so lucky to have people of your calibre on the board.
Your warm, humble, empathetic, non judgmental attitude is so calming to the soul.
I know that if I ever had a problem you would listen with an understanding, open heart and give advice, both wise and caring.
I know you would never let your own bias, personality or experience get in the way of a thoughtful, compassionate summation of the situation.
Those of us who are going through the trauma of losing all we have loved in this word, really appreciate your non judgmental, loving approach.
It’s so comforting to know we have loving people like you to take the place of our family and loved ones.
y
Open mind

A few more points to consider Moshe.
1. How about the mental and emotional health of each individual? For some it is a tremendous victory to just mentally break free themselves. They have to overcome many fears and insecurities just to get that far. If that's all they can bring themselves to do, I'm certainly not going to cast aspersions on them and call them doormats.
2. Effectiveness. We each have our own level of effectiveness. I have personally benefitted from reading many of your posts on here. But, I was ready to read them. For many active JWs, the work you do may be wasted breath and ink. Someone earlier mentioned that we're each on our own path. How about making the most of your situation as it evolves? I used my eldership to effectively reach my immediate family. Now we're using our "active" JW status to possibly reach more JWs from the inside. Any time an elder spends "counseling" me is time he isn't counseling someone else who he might actually have a chance of reaching.
Our family always has two territories checked out at any given time. Can you personally ensure that no JWs will be cold-calling on the homes of two territories worth of your neighbors? We can. We get a nice big slug of mags and literature that ends up hitting the recycling bin and we don't contribute a penny. (I do feel a bit bad for the environmental cost of that and might cut back a bit in the future.)
3. Jousting at windmills. There will always be high-control cults. A certain segment of society is drawn to them. I'll do my bit to weaken the WT as I continue to live what's left of my life, but I'm not going to let it consume me.
om
moshe

If you want a nonjudgemental friend, get a dog. The trauma of losing our loved ones when leaving the WT is often self-inflicted as a consequence of being in a cult-religion. Some things in life can't be fixed and some JW relatives will never leave the KH. They have their own mind an all the trickery faders use to tease them out will never work on them. Also, it is common for people to seek out the advice they "want", not the advice they need. I have a friend who is 100lbs overweight and he has a warm and caring doctor who understands his weight problems- my friend is never going to go on a diet listening to what he wants to hear.
However, for those faders born into a JW home you have my sincere apology as I did not mean to offend you. If they want to fade, they have every right to do so. They are already innocent victims of the WT religion. I had no excuse as I walked into the KH under my own steam, I stayed longer than I should have- after 1976 I had enough reason to leave, but didn't. I wasted another 12 good years before I left. Had I just begun fading after 1988, I know my situation would not be better than it is now. My kids would have been sucked into the WT religion and then it would have been my wife and 2 kids against me- it would have only gotten worse with time. Fading can have a downside, despite what everyone wants to believe. I lost my marriage, but my kids never became JW's and even my ex-wife finally realized the KH was not the truth, either and she left 10 years after me. I got myself , my kids and their mother out. I guess the main reason I couldn't fade was I couldn't lie to myself. It seems to me that I am in the minority here on that one.
Hiding Questioner


I just finished reading all the comments on this Thread and, as a result, I am compelled to respond. First, I fit the following description and I am proud of it.
"There may be some people who do come here and bitch and moan but yet keep going to meetings and pretending to be JWs. Someone pretending to do all that may not fit the exact description of 'fader' but yet they can, in their own way find freedom from the clutches of the WT Cult. They may be there physically but mentally, they're with us."
Why? Because, by not being "mentally" in and yet "physically" in, I am proving to myself and to the WT that we can still be "in" and "in good standing" and yet they can't blind all of us, we know what's going on and that their techniques are not 100% effective. And yet, at the same time, I also believe the following to be true....

"I hold that fading is most effective. I hold that a direct assault like DA'ing yourself is mostly ineffective. A steady guerrilla war drains them as with any centralized oppressive power. Drain them. Chip away at them. Erode their authority. That's the way that works because it "flies under the radar" of their simple-minded view of things. If you disassociate yourself, you are a labeled enemy who will never be spoken to."
So, what is my approach? Well, it's similar to the following approach "Any time an elder spends "counseling" me is time he isn't counseling someone else who he might actually have a chance of reaching" So, as I do my fake 4 hours a month ministry I spend my time preventing or guiding people away from the insanity and I prevent those JWs (including my "brainwashed" JW-wife) from doing any harm, thereby protecting others from being victims and giving the GB it's just F**K YOU!
By the way, I do believe in a loving God and the Bible, I just don’t believe in the WTBTS and its methods and I am angered by how it has mislead and unnecessarily harmed people’s lives and families.
HQ
Hiding Questioner

Sorry for all the garbage at the beginning of my post. Not sure how that happened
HQ
Broken Promises

Moshe, a point you may have missed is that many of the faders are born into the Org. We didn’t have a choice – our parents (many of whom where also brainwashed) raised us in the best way they knew. As a result, most of our immediate families and relatives are JWs.
Under those circumstances, it’s not easy to leave. First of all, you are dealing with the fact that it’s not “the truth”. That in itself is soul-destroying. Then you have to deal with all your family and friends potentially shunning you. When you’ve been raised as a JW, with no option or opportunity to cultivate friendship with non-JWs, it can be a very awkward time as you learn to take babysteps into “the world”.
So on top of all this, you expect those who chose to fade to become outspoken WT critics. Well, sorry, but it’s not that easy. It may seem simple for someone like you, who has been out for a while, and the initial pain of leaving has softened and diminished with time. Many on the boards are still in the process of leaving, or if they have already left, they are in the process of reestablishing family bonds. To most ppl, these family bonds are more important than bringing thousands of strangers out of the Org.
Myself, I faded out of the Org because that was the best way for me to leave. It enables me to stay in contact with what is left of my family. If I had made a dramatic stand by being df’d or da’d myself, I wouldn’t be able to stay in contact with my JW family, and have the chance of helping them escape the WTS.
I have already helped one cousin to think for herself, when she was thinking of going back to the JWs after a 40 year absence. I lent her my copy of Ray Franz’s COC book, and it opened her eyes. I am also close to my niece, who has been brought up as a JW by her mother, but she already is getting old enough to see that the JWs are a crook religion. And she has the opportunity to see that I left, yet I haven’t turned into a moral degenerate or crazy Bible-thumper. In other words, she knows that there is life outside the JWs, and that you won’t be zapped by lightening if you leave!
I would love to see the WTS brought down for good and exposed for what they are. In the 10 years I’ve been out, I’ve seen many efforts by individuals and small groups to expose JW policies. The NGO UN involvement, Silentlambs, the Dateline programe, just to name a few. Despite these efforts the WTS still stands, doesn’t it? So it’s not that easy, even when a group of ex-JWs get together.
But I can’t do it by myself, and I doubt any of us here today will do it. But change can start from the ground up, which is what I’m working on. Who’s to say that the WTS would not be a larger group if it wasn’t for the internet exposing the WTS? Or for individuals like ourselves that others can observe, giving them the hope that there is life outside the Org?
Do not underestimate the power of a fader. We can do a lot (and have!) even if it’s not known to anyone else on the boards.
moshe

B-P, I already apologized to you one post up. Yes, JW's who were raised as JW's have already been given a raw deal. Good luck.
yesidid

I guess the main reason I couldn't fade was I couldn't lie to myself. It seems to me that I am in the minority here on that one.
Weeeeeeeeeeeell aren't we holy. Certainly vastly superior to the Hoi polloi posting on this board.
y
Gregor

Gee, yesidid. Your snotty retorts seem way over the top. Moshe is just stating how he feels on the subject. Is this a case of taking out your frustration on him since you are scared s---less of the JWs? Good thing you list your location as the Maldives, you and your two faces should be safe.

Faders are indeed a very large doormat

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