Are Jehovah's Witnesses evil?

by SexyTeen 66 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Adonai438

  A lot of people here have been very hurt.
  Speaking for myself, it's not neccessarily the people who are'evil'.
  Most JWs I knew and still know are loving people but are misled about God. They are trying to be good people because they think they have something to prove to God- they have to earn his favor over and over again to make sure they get to go to paradise. I hold nothing against the people. Unfortunately, most of them don't follow Jehovah as their final authority- they follow the Watchtower- Thus making the Watchtower their god instead. I am not making any judgement of what you personally do - I don't know you. I do know that it is forbidden to question the Society about anything and that it is not allowed to think for ones self or read the Bible without their publications. That is wrong! God is not afraid that facts be examined because facts can only prove the truth.
  Being Good is not what makes you good enough to be loved by God and 'saved'.
  Ephesians 2:1-10 (8&9 especially)- people are saved from their sin by God's grace alone through their faith in the true God.
  I know I ramble- sorry :)

  Let me just say one last thing,
  I don't know how old you are but when I was 15 years old I was studying to be baptised a witness myself. I loved (and still love) God very much. Something didn't seem right and I never seemed ready to actually get baptised. I didn't feel I knew what the Bible said about my beliefs enough to take that step. I had also made some terrific friends. They were christians but very loving, reasonable and non judgemental- not at all what I had been taught Christendom was. They didn't preach at me, they just listened to me tell them about Jehovah and said it was very interesting. We read the Bible together sometimes and they encouraged me to really study it to learn what it taught. So I did- I studied and studied and even prayed and I learned so much about Jehovah (Yahweh is the actual translation) through this. The problem was what I had read in the Bible was not what Jehovah's Witnesses teach. I had to stay true to God. The JWs couldn't explain how their beliefs were in the Bible- because most of them are not. It came down to a 'crisis of conscience :)' issue with me:
  I could either shrug off what the Bible plainly taught and stay in my comfort zone where my family and everything else was but ignore the God that made me - or
  I could stay true to God where ever that lead.
  I chose the later.
  The following is not meant to sound bitter but to inform you of what happens when JWs can't control someones beliefs or loyalty to them:
  The body of local elders decided that since I lived with my aunt and I was not technically her child that she needed to give me an ultimatum: I had to lie and pretend I believed in JWs until I was 18 so I wouldn't influence the other 4 children or I was to be told to leave her home.
  I told them I would behave according to house rules but I would not lie about God ->so I was kicked out of the house at 15 in the middle of winter with no where to go.
  This is not a sad story though :)
  God always stuck by me and took care of me. 6 almost 7 years later I have a terrific husband and a great 1 year old son and an awesome relationship with God.

  So much for wrapping it up quickly,
  Please e-mail me anytime, especially if you want to know what I learned that showed me JWs is not the truth- Don't worry - I am not an 'apostate' technically. I just share the Bible- thats it.

  Welcome Again!
  Angie
• 

  AjaxMan

  SexyTeen,

  I appreciate your comments.

  Now, out of my curiosity, Are you going to attend a 4-yr college or a 2-yr?

  The main reason I ask is because I did chat with a couple of members of this forum (I am not gonna mention names) and they say that the elders at their congregation highly discouraged their members to go to a 4 yr university, they frowned on members that go to 2 yr colleges and for these elders, it is OK to go to a Vocational/Technical school.

  If you are attending college, good for you. Take advantage of getting an education at your age because it will be harder when you get older. I'm saying harder, but not impossible.

  Peace.

  Ajax

  "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things and the best things never die." - The Shawshank Redemption
• 

  teenyuck

  AMarie & NameWithheld, Thank you. You both clarified my points.

  Let me further.

  1. When my mother joined the dubs, I was 5 years old. I was in kindergarten. I was in a public school in Chicago. It was 1967. There were no other JW kids at the school. The neighborhood was overwhelmlingly catholic. We (my 8 yr.old sister and I) had no friends. I went to that school from kindergarten thru 4th grade. Then we moved to the suburbs. However, having no friends during that time period WAS BAD. Not healthy. I was not allowed to play at recess or eat with anyone at lunch. Go talk to a psychologist on how interaction helps children, Sexy Teen. Perhaps you will understand.

  2. Women in subjection. This credo applies to the woman of the taliban and the more fundamentalist Islamic religions. Why? Because women are smart, strong and could take men down. How to keep them down? Tell them scripture. Tell them it is gospel. Take this attitude to the workplace with you. See how far you get. Every employer will love having the worker who will do anything for any man, because she is in "subjection." Let them walk over you. You do it at the KH, so you may as well follow up at work. Assuming you use that college dipolma for something. Why are you going to college and not pioneering?

  3. College. I grew up when we were told education was a waste of time. Armageddon was coming. Since this was the 5th or 6th prediction, I should have been suspicious. However, being young and hopeful, I thought, what the hell? Why study school work? I can preach and be in PARADISE!!! Yeah!! I was soon going to be froliking with the wild animals! Who needed to learn algebra? Big mistake. It took me 16 years to earn my bachelors degree. I blame the witnesses for pushing that mentality on myself and countless others. I had to take remedial math to go to college. The brother who helped me study for my baptizism, advised that I take Home Economics and Typing. This way I could keep a good home and work as a secretary, if need be! Great advice from an elder. Great advice from someone I trusted who was helping guide my life.

  4. Armageddon. Read the thread called " A Down Side to Hope" posted by Audrey. Enough said.

  5. My father being DF'd for smoking. Yes, the DF'ing was the straw that broke the camels back. He put up with alot from the dubs. They invaded every part of the personal life my parents had. No more oral sex. Yes, thats right. My father recently told me that when they no longer could do anything but missionary position, he really started thinking they were crazy. Why did they invade their bedroom? This led to the eventual breakup of my family. You can believe all you want that smoking was the catalyst. No, my father being cut off from everyone was. I was 11. I was told I could not speak to my father. Is this normal? Is this healthy? NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! They are directly responsible for that. Would a catholic priest or a episcopalian minister tell a family not to talk to someone because they had broken a silly "law?" This is what enrages me. In case you had not figured it out.
• 

  Valis

  Uh yeah...and let me know if you need any "counseling".....hehehehe I have an extensive collection of rulers for that very purpose...No really, please do let me know if you need advise about school, or classes, or degree planning. Its what I do all day long, besides leave crude messages on this board that is.....
• 

  Abaddon

  Excellent replies all round...

  SexyTeen, remember, if you assume for a moment that we are right, and that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a 'High-Control Group' (I'm avoiding the use of the word 'cult', as it is emotive, and can result in the conversation getting bogged down in semantics), then people who are Jehovah's Witnesses are not always acting like themselves (the warm, loving, caring people you know), but can under the right circumstances act like a member of their religion.

  This might not be a bad thing, but, because of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses, it can often have bad results.

  Look at the Blood Transfusion issue for example; there is now a lot more leeway and scope for personal conscience than there used to be. It used to be if you had blood, you were disfellowshipped. Check the CD-ROM's of the Watchtower for details, going back as far as you can.

  Now, the doctrine has changed. Why? The Bible certainly hasn't. And people claiming the authority to decide WHAT the Bible means, if they are not sure, should let an individual's conscience decide. But they do not. Someone can have a transfusion of certain blood products now, and remain in good standing, when ten years ago, they would have been disfellowshipped.

  It's even more striking when you look at transplants. It is now a matter of conscience. It used to be a disfellowshipping offense. Look in the CD-ROM. In older publications, they even say that a heart transplant patient could take on the personality of the donor. JW's at the time could not exercise their conscience, but had to follow rules, rules that were changed because...

  ... people changed their minds.

  And what of those that died before they changed their minds?

  Going further back, vaccinations were also once prohibited.

  So, say we are right, and the JW's are a high control group. One of them refuses certain blood products for their child, because it is against the rules, although their heart cries out for them to let them proceed.

  Now, should we be mad at the person? No. They are in a high control group.

  Should we be mad at the believer? We have a right to, if we don't agree. What if the next Watchtower said that the treatment the child needed was now a matter of conscience? Because someone changed their mind...

  So when you see anger directed at the Witnesses, realise it is very rarely at a person, and if it is, would probably be there under any circumstances given the history. Realise the anger is directed at the believer, the member, the 'cultist'.

  All my family apart from me are Witnesses. They've treated me very well since I stopped going to meetings. My father and two brothers are Elders, their sons are all, bar one 21 y-o and a teenager baptised.

  I love them very much, but sometimes they do things I think are wrong. If it's got something to do with their beliefs, then it's sensless getting mad at them, because I believe it is not their fault, they are following the rules... rules that change...

  People living in glass paradigms shouldn't throw stones...
• 

  Room 215

  Hi Sexy Teen,

  Welcome to this forum. With all due respect to those who replied to you most interesting question, I believe Hillary Sitep answered it best. Among JWs are to to be found many admirable people, and that was also true of the Jews of the First Century to whom Jesus ministry was initially directed. Since the Judaistic organization had become irredeemable, Jesus' appealed TO THE INDIVIDUALS to come to him.
• 

  outnfree

  Welcome to the Board, Sexy Teen!
  (good to see you have a good self-image!)

  David Gladden wrote:

  Because, when you do something that breaks one of their rules, they turn on you. They are happy and loving right now, but if you do something they do not approve of... look out they become very fierce.

  To which you responded:

  Actually don't they turn on you if you brake Biblical laws?

  To which I respectfully maintain:

  No. I broke no Biblical laws, but I have been shunned by almost all who know that I disassociated myself from the religion once I had come to the sad conclusion that the Watch Tower Society is NOT God's organization. It may have started out as a sincere group of Bible students in the late 1800's but it has evolved into a big, fat, publishing corporation with layers of hierarchy not unlike the Roman Catholic church! There is NOT equality among the brothers (and let's not even GO there with the sisters -- some of whom are clearly more intelligent and capable than the brothers who direct them!) and there IS a clergy class despite protests to the contrary by the Governing Body.

  Tell me, Sexy Teen, have you ever wondered how the Governing Body decides upon 'new light?' I used to have the naive idea that the +/-12 men on the GB actually consulted with the rest of the 8,000 or so living Anointed Ones -- you know, the REST of the Faithful & Discreet Slave? -- but I was wrong.

  Freeman wrote:
  

  ... most of us here have great affection for the witnesses, however most here have a loathing for the organization. ... Some here have a great love of the Lord, but contempt for the Watch Tower.

  It is not individual Witnesses who are evil (although some are, just like people everywhere), it is the system they adamantly proclaim as God's mouthpiece that is evil.

  If you continue reading you may learn that the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society is right in among those of whom the Bible says "having no natural affection [for the poor sheep]... having a form of godly devotion, but proving false to its power [the organization lacks true LOVE]."

  Paul wrote at 1 Corinthians 13:13 of the importance of LOVE: "Now, hoever, there remain faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love."

  The WTBTS places great emphasis on faith -- in Jehovah and in the organization, and on hope -- the Kingdom hope. But it doesn't measure up with the greatest of these -- love. In verses 5-7 of that same chapter, Paul notes that love:

  "is not jealous" -- but the WT Society itself is jealous of any attention to other religious thought

  "does not look for its own interests" -- but the WT Society uses harsh and hurtful methods to ostensibly 'protect the flock'

  "does not become provoked" -- but the WT Society appoints [supposedly by holy spirit] imperfect humans to form a judicial committee when a rules-infraction occurs (and some of these rules are NOT Biblical, but [WTBT]Societal) and the committeemen decide the 'sinner' is unrepentant

  "does not keep account of the injury" -- but the WTS has judicial committees. What exactly are judicial committees FOR? and the various kinds of reproach, withdrawal of privileges, etc.? and arbitrary six month minimum waiting periods for reinstatement after disfellowshipping?

  Jehovah's Witnesses AS AN ORGANIZATION do not display the primary fruitage of the spirit, LOVE.

  No, the majority of Jehovah's Witnesses are not consciously supporting something they know to be evil, thus being evil themselves.

  But the system IS evil and has hurt many. You have read shocking stories here because many who have been hurt come here to grieve. They mourn the loss of something they once believed to be so beautiful and which they have now found to be lies, lies and more lies.

  Sincerely,

  outnfree

  It's what you learn after you know it all that counts -- John Wooden
• 

  SexyTeen

  AMarie: Thanks for welcoming me. Regarding the smoking issue, I believe it is based on a principle in 2 Cor. 7:1 about being clean. Personally as far as smoking, I hate it, but I think elders do give someone that has that habit a chance to quit. If they don't quit, then I guess they're disfellowshipped. I don't know if that's right or not, but it's good if people don't smoke.

  Scully: I guess I agree that there are degrees of wrongdoing, how many times it happend and all that. I have asked my dad some questions about that, and he says that a person that is humble and accepts responsability for what he has done and changes his ways, can receive a reproove and not necessarily be disfellowshipped.

  Adonai: Wow you went through a rough teen years. I am lucky to have a family that loves me and protects me. I always thank Jehovah for the parents I have. It's great that you have managed to find happiness in your life.

  Ajaxman: I don't know yet. I spoke to an elder and asked what he recommended and he told me that although four years of school seems like a long time, that I won't regret because a bachelors degree is necessary for many jobs now adays. I like computers and a two year program seems good enough. I still have time to decide, meanwhile I will be going to a junior college.

  puffsrule: I understand your point. I guess your parents were really strict on you if they didn't allowed you to play at recess time. Sounds a bit tough I think.

  On point two, I don't think that JWs treat women like the Taliban does. That's very extreme. In out household, my dad is the head but he treats my mom with dignity and respect. Her opinions are highly regarded. I don't think that the brothers walk all over me at the hall.

  On the college thing, sorry you didn't go. I guess those were different times.

  On point #5, it seems you were really hurt by what your parents went through. Sorry about that. I doubt that not having oral sex broke the marriage. I think there is more to love than sex. There must be other issues that were not explained to you, maybe because you were only 11. I agree that it is not normal. Have you been able to get over those problems? I hope so.
• 

  OUTLAW

  Has YO-yo really left the board?...OUTLAW
• 

  AjaxMan

  outnfree and puffsrule,

  I am sorry about your pain and experiences while you were JWs, but can you express yourselves in a way as not shove things down her throat. Keep in mind, she's only like 17 or 18 years old (starting college in the fall and being a teenager).

  I know you are gonna flame me for what I just said. If we express ourselves with too much emotion and anger to another person, it can turn them off and that person will never want to listen to us. I know that because I did that and it surely didn't work for me.

  Like I said, I was never a JW, but I am learning a lot not just about the JWs, but other high control groups and other cults. Yeah, I am a cult survivor and I do study cult phenomena.

  Ajax

  "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things and the best things never die." - The Shawshank Redemption