by SexyTeen 66 Replies latest jw friends
Hi,
There is already lots of good information here but I wanted to post a link to a very interesting debate that already took place about this topic and if JW's deserved any respect at all. The URL is:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=19283&site=3
Kind Regards,
Skipper
namewithheld: please don't twist my words. I did not say "sorry about your back luck, shit happens, oh well". I only said that those were different times. I did not mean anything bad by that. I didn't say it was his fault. My dad grew up as a JW and he went to a two year college and has done o.k. in life. Just because someone told him not to go, doesn't mean he couldn't go.
bitter mango: you are right about that. I am learning a lot, there are many sad storys here.
Ajaxman,
You wrote:
I am sorry about your pain and experiences while you were JWs, but can you express yourselves in a way as not shove things down her throat. Keep in mind, she's only like 17 or 18 years old (starting college in the fall and being a teenager).A-man,I know you are gonna flame me for what I just said. If we express ourselves with too much emotion and anger to another person, it can turn them off and that person will never want to listen to us.
So as not to hijack this thread, you may e-mail me privately, if you like.
Meanwhile, I wish to state here that the pain mostly came from realizing that I had given over my life and trained my children to respect an organization that harms its members in serious and grave ways by lying and keeping to double standards itself. I was a truth seeker thinking I had found TRUTH. I was sorely mistaken.
outnfree
It's what you learn after you know it all that counts -- John Wooden
Sexy, I don't mean to twist your words. When communicating over a texted based system you fail to see emotions, etc that are reflected in a person's words. I was using your post to illustrate a tendancy that JWs (and JW leaders) seem to have - that of minimising people's pain. After all, it doesn't matter how badly you are treated by the brothers, right? Jehovah will make it all better "in his time", right? Don't tell me you've never heard the famous "wait on Jehovah" speech when you have a problem!
Your words just struck me as typical JWism "Oh well, those were different times" In one sentence you dismissed the lifetime of sacrifices that were made in the name of the JW religion - sacrifices that were tossed out the window in a heartbeat as soon as 'doubts' were expressed. It's the same excuse the 'brothers' have made for every failed prophesy - "Sorry, now get back to preaching!"
Let's put it this way. Right now, you cannot take a blood trasnfusion, right? Now, let's say your father dies in part due to the fact that he refuses a transfusion. Now, let's say two years down the road, the 'brothers' say "Oh, new light, I guess it's OK to have a transfusion, it's a 'conscience' matter - we won't DF or reprove you anymore". How will you feel? How will your mother feel? How would you feel if your child died?
And don't dismiss the above. It HAS already happened. At one point, vaccines were forbidden. At one point organ transplants were forbidden. People DIED because of this. And then the 'brothers' decided maybe it's not against 'god's will' after all. Oh, sorry about your family that died "But those were different times"
bitter mango: you are right about that. I am learning a lot, there are many sad storys here.
glad your're learning something. yup, TOO MANY sad stories here. everywhere really. anyways, the very least you can do is to not allow yourself to become one of these 'stories'.
good luck.
Actually don't they turn on you if you brake Biblical laws?
You bring up a very important point... What exactly is "Biblical law"? Many different people will interpret the bible differently and come to totally different conclusions. Even in the Org for a given "offence", a person may be DF'ed in one congregation, yet in another no sanctions will be imposed. They are very inconsistent.
If a person votes, will they be DF'ed?
If a person donates blood, will they be DF'ed?
If a person watches an R rated movie, will they be DF'ed?
If a person goes to College, will they be DF'ed?
If a person works overtime instead of going out in the Field Service, will they be considered "bad association"?
If a person buys a two door car instead of a four door, will they be considered "bad association"?
Many JW's are obsessed with stupid little details. I've seen people given hell over stupid things like these. One congregation will DF a person, yet another will not.
One person will have his life ruined, another will not - all on the whim of a few elders in a JC.
Just because someone told him not to go, doesn't mean he couldn't go.
No. But it does mean that the angry-at-the-world old white men who told him he shouldn't go, no more speak for God than president Bush does.
At that my dear, is a provable FACT.
namewithheld: I see your point. If that were to happen to my dad, I would be comforted to know that he was faithful to Jehovah until the end. But I understand what you are saying
David Gladden:
The Bible say we not to be part of this world, so voting for political seats is not appropiate. We can vote for things that affect us in our local community, like tax hikes and things of that nature.
Donating blood is also not allowed because we would be participating in blood transfussions.
You will not be disfellowshipped for watching an R rated movie. But I understand that rules such as this one should not be forced upon us.
You will not be disfellowshipped for going to college.
I agree that some JWs are obsessed with little details, but the majority is o.k.
outnfree,
You got mail.
Ajax
"Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things and the best things never die." - The Shawshank Redemption
"namewithheld: I see your point. If that were to happen to my dad, I would be comforted to know that he was faithful to Jehovah until the end. But I understand what you are saying"
But you don't get it! He didn't/wouldn't have died "faithful to Jehovah" - he would have died "faithful" to the society. Can't you see the difference? His death would be meaningless. He need not have died at all! And until you have been through as tramatic an experience as this I don't think it's fair to say you'd "be comforted" by that. My bet is you'd be roally pissed off.
"Donating blood is also not allowed because we would be participating in blood transfussions."
Yet you are allowed to take Albinum (sp?) - a blood faction that take dozens of pints of human blood to produce. Can you not see the logic problem here? You can profit from the good people who care enough about others to donate blood (yea, yea, I know they pay deadbeats to donate too), yet you yourself will not do the same?
And actually, if you reread that questions from readers from a year or so ago, you will see that now voting is a 'conscience matter'. So you can vote IF YOU SEE FIT. Of course, the JW leaders tried to make this VERY subtle so as not to offend long-time witnesses - but the fact is (due to their UN memebrship!!!!!!) they can no longer oust memebers forcefully if they want to vote. It is against the UN charter. And yet they pretend to "be no part of the world".
