Did the first Christians worship Jesus?

by slimboyfat 85 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    no no no no debator. Can't use that tired excuse. Being called "GOD" and being called "A" god are 2 different things. You can try and bring up John 1:1, however that's easily arguable. But John 20:28 is harder for you to tackle.

    If John 1:1 ACTUALLY DID say that Jesus is God and did not use the letter "A" but said that he was "THE" God, would that prove the trinity. John 20:28 does the same. No definite article is used. Jesus IS CALLED GOD. So if we are only to worship God, then that includes Jesus himself.

  • debator
    debator

    Agonus I only have two scriptures to quote to you when it come to prayer.

    Matthew 6:6
    But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.

    Matthew 6:9
    "This, then, is how you should pray: " 'Our Father

    You want to pray and worship Jesus? It must be inconvenient to realise he himself like witnesses only recognised and prayed to his father Jehovah.

    Hi donut

    The answer is in the context that the angel stopped him. All these negatives cannot create a doctrine. Jesus created the doctrine himself when he told us to worship his father in spirit and truth.

    What makes people true followers of Jesus?

    Those that worship and laud him calling "we worship and prayed you oh lord lord!"

    Or those that listen to what he said and do what he said, worshiping and praying to our one true God Jehovah?

  • agonus
    agonus

    It's funny, I have a better relationship with Jesus now than I ever did when I was a Witness... or even a "Christian" (at least in the orthodox sense)! I talk to the guy all the time and I'm not even sure he was Christ, Messiah, or the Son of God. Love him more now than I ever did, I can tell you that... he's my brotha!

  • agonus
    agonus

    Nothing wrong with praying to the Father. Nothing wrong with praying to the Son either. The apostles did it.

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    You give yourself away Debator. You say that it is defined by the context, but you do not know what the context is. I don't think you even know what the WORD context means. The context of that scripture is NOT that the angel stopped John. You say:

    The answer is in the context that the angel stopped him. All these negatives cannot create a doctrine. Jesus created the doctrine himself when he told us to worship his father in spirit and truth.

    What's the context? Why did the angel stop him? When Thomas called Jesus God in John 20:28 why did HE not stop him from calling him God?

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    I will ask you again, Debator. In your mind is there ANY possibility that you are wrong on this subject?

  • debator
    debator

    Hi dan

    Unfortunately for you the sahidic coptic proves the witnesses correct on "a god" as regards John 1:1 written a century before trinity and john 20:28 is not doctrine but a surprised statement from thomas at an occurence when he sees Jesus!

    The bible will always states what happens at accurrences straightforwardly.

    Take this one with Paul.

    Acts 28:4-6 (New International Version)

    4 When the islanders saw the snake hanging from his hand, they said to each other, "This man must be a murderer; for though he escaped from the sea, Justice has not allowed him to live." 5 But Paul shook the snake off into the fire and suffered no ill effects. 6 The people expected him to swell up or suddenly fall dead, but after waiting a long time and seeing nothing unusual happen to him, they changed their minds and said he was a god.

    the greek word used here is "queon" and can in context refer to G-od but clearly not in this verse due to context of refering to Paul. So the translators put "a god" where it is used here but elsewhere when in reference it used for God himself it is translated G-od. A person could translate this "they thought he was God"

    Is Paul God then?

    He doesn't deny it. It only describes the event and what the islanders thought.

    Thomas exclamation in a similar vain is not a statement of doctrine unlike Jesus clear instructions.

    Again I prefer Jesus's words rather than making assumptions from occurances that do not indicate anything.

    And considering after this event Paul and the other early Christians still refered to Jesus's father as their God so if apparently it was so pivotal why didn't it change their viewpoint if you are taking it as a doctrinal change by thomas?

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    WHAT?!? Debator, come on...

    john 20:28 is not doctrine but a surprised statement from thomas at an occurance when he sees Jesus!

    Thomas calls Jesus THE GOD. And you just think it is a comment of surprise? No, he KNEW Jesus was God. Even non believers knew that Jesus claimed to be God. Read John 5:18. HE WAS MAKING HIMSELF EQUAL TO GOD!

    You have to do mental gymnastics to get past only these 2 scriptures. Here is your defense.

    "So Thomas may have called Jesus God, but it was just an act of surprise at seeing him. And in John 5 the Jews were the ones that thought he was equal to God but no one else thought that. DERRRRRRRRRRRRR"

    Seriously the lack of reasoning skills you have are amazing. Again, I ask you, is there ANY possibility that you are wrong?

  • OUTLAW
    OUTLAW

    BD..

    Reniaa/Debator listens with her mouth..

    Unless it`s WBT$ Approved,she can`t hear you..

    ................... ...OUTLAW

  • brotherdan
    brotherdan

    Debator is a girl?!? Wow...never would've thought.

    I'm done for today. Have a good weekend everyone!

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