Did the first Christians worship Jesus?

by slimboyfat 85 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  debator

  Slim

  Your point is very blurring. "a god" as apposed to "The one true God"? One of the main themes of the bible is Jehovah's right of sovereignty as the one true God as apposed to other gods.

  1 Corinthians 8:5-6
  5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

  The difference between "from" "for" and "through" may seem irrelevent to you but the Bible writers also consider it important.

  Seeing Jesus as the "way" to God is a massive difference than seeing him as God himself. False believed ideology means Christendom thinks a father and son are the same being, they no longer use Jehovah's name, they think an image can be the original, where 3 can equal 1 etc. For me I suppose it is the choice between living with defined Bible truths or in an Oxymoron's paradise

  As humans we like to live by clearly defined edges of understanding. When you start saying "it doesn't matter!" when do you stop?
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  isaacaustin

  Reniaa:

  1 Corinthians 8:5-6
  5For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.

  The difference between "from" "for" and "through" may seem irrelevent to you but the Bible writers also consider it important.

  My reply: Wrong again Reniaa. Lord and God are used interchangeably here. There are many lords and gods in the world...but to Christians just one Lord and God- the titles being used as parallel, not contrasting titles. NT texts can be supplied that refer to the Father as Lord, as well as the Son. If you want to use the verse here to say one God means Jesus can not be God, then the Father can not be Lord, since there is only one Lord.

  "For" and "through" are not anything distinguishing...you again show your lack of reasoning.

  Col 1:16 says all things were created FOR and THROUGH Jesus. Heb 2;10 says about God: "for whose sake all things are and through whom all things are".
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  Chalam

  There is very little to separate JWs and mainstream Christians when you pare it down to scriptural language.

  Maybe, but those counterfeit bank notes are worthless when you take them to the bank.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  designs

  And here in lies the sad state of modern Christianity with all of its superstitions and developed theologies and philosophies. Not to mention the underlying fear factor inherent in the Trinitarian viewoint. "Get it wrong and Hell awaits'.

  Pretty pathetic, we left pathetic behind when we left the Watchtower, why get sucked in again by something worse.
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  PSacramento

  This is not a trinity debate at all.

  For a Christian, You can't worship God accept through Jesus, by default if nothing else, Jesus is also worshiped, just not as God.

  I doesn't matter hoe many times Jesus said worship the Father, because you can't make that mean, anything other than Jesus telling Us to worship God as God.

  Did the Apostles worship Jesus? from the use of the word proskueno in context, it would seem so, the issue that is being presented seems to be , Did they worship Jesus instead of God?

  An dthe answer is NO, they worshipped God through Jesus and Worship Jesus as the Son of God, equalling the worship of Jesus and wht he represents as being the same as Worshiping God, it truly is the case of "you can't have one without the other" for a Christian.
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  Chalam

  PSacramento Jesus is also worshiped, just not as God.

  What?!

  John 20:28 (New International Version)

  28 Thomas said to him, "My Lord and my God!"

  Hebrews 1:6-9 (New International Version)

  6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says,
  "Let all God's angels worship him." 7 In speaking of the angels he says,
  "He makes his angels winds,
  his servants flames of fire." 8 But about the Son he says,
  "Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever,
  and righteousness will be the scepter of your kingdom.
  9 You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;
  therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
  by anointing you with the oil of joy."

  Matthew 28:9 (New International Version)

  9 Suddenly Jesus met them. "Greetings," he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.

  Luke 4:8 (New International Version)

  8 Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Worship the Lord your God and serve him only.'"

  So if Jesus said only God is to be worshipped, why would He allow people to worship Him? Surely the only viable answer is Jesus is God?

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  PSacramento

  Stephen,

  I meant that Jesus was not worshipped as THE God ( The Father) but worshipped at the Son Of God.

  You can't really reconcile all those passages that seem to point to different things if you think that the Apostles and followers worshiped Jesus as YHWH.
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  Chalam

  I agree with Thomas, Jesus is "my Lord and my God".

  I also agree with John, Jesus is God John 1:1

  I also agree with David, Jesus is God Hebrews 1:8

  I also agree with Isaiah, Jesus is "God with us" Matthew 1:23

  I also agree with Paul, Jesus is in very nature God Philippians 2:6

  Any "a god", "divine" or other nature of Jesus talk is plain wrong IMHO.

  Blessings,

  Stephen
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  donuthole

  Any a cursory reading of the NT will reveal marked differences between Jehovah's Witnesses and the Christians of that day. Within the religion today you will looked down upon for speaking the name of Jesus too much whereas the early Christians had no such problem. When it came to their community and ministry, Jesus was their focus.

  I think because of their opposition to the Trinity doctrine JW's have a stigma for giving honor and attention to Jesus. JW's have admitted that in the past they removed many of the songs that focused on Jesus so that it would be a much smaller ratio to songs about Jehovah. Today he is just a foot-note. Using the forementioned example of the songbook, the previous release featured more songs glorifying the door-to-door work than about Christ. The newest version goes even further and takes away Christ and interjects the faithful and discreet slave.

  Jesus said, "no one comes to the Father except through me." Sometimes I feel that JW's believe they have found a hidden back door.
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  snowbird

  Sometimes I feel that JW's believe they have found a hidden back door.

  Or, they're like the hired man in John chapter 10, who tries to climb over the fence.

  Syl