Top 10 reasons why JWs don't have the truth - please contribute

by oldlightnewshite 172 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Chalam

  Welcome Joey Jo-Jo!

  I have been looking into trinity, from what I understand from a NT viewpoint Jesus is our God and GOD is our father?

  That's a bit better than the WT's "a god". However, the correct rendering of this verses say all.

  John 1:1 (New International Version)

  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

  The book Kingdom Of Cults makes some very good points about trinity being true, but I need to deepen my studies for a sound decision, at the moment all of this is a bit confusing for me.

  IMHO, this is one core passage you need get to grips with so take it one verse at a time!

  Philippians 2:5-11 (New International Version)

  5 Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus:
  6 Who, being in very nature God,
  did not consider equality with God something to be grasped,
  7 but made himself nothing,
  taking the very nature of a servant,
  being made in human likeness.
  8 And being found in appearance as a man,
  he humbled himself
  and became obedient to death—
  even death on a cross!
  9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
  and gave him the name that is above every name,
  10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
  in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
  11 and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord,
  to the glory of God the Father.

  I think this could help you too, grab the popcorn :)

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/188641/1/The-Trinity-the-biblical-case-clear-and-simple

  Blessings,

  Stephen
• 

  designs

  Stephen- be sure and tell Joey that you believe in such things as miracle rice crispys and a very nasty Jesus/God of Hell Fire. You don't want to mislead someone do you as you try to blend in with the X-Witness crowd.

  As for Walter Martin's book Kingdom of the Cults, what a load of crap writing- conclusion after studying the book for two years with a Jesuit/Attorney.
• 

  Mrs. Peck

  The Trinity to me is a no brainer......Jesus is God's son, he is not God.....and God gave Jesus the holy spirit.....So....how could they be one? God was not here on earth performing miracles, etc.......Jesus was sent by God, his father! Where on earth do people get the idea that they are all one?? I know my explanation sounds rather elementary but to me it just comes down to common sense.......just my opinion......
• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  Chalam- thanks, watched the vid and others, some points I already knew, others I didn't. I wish if someone would answer directly my points in the previous post . Did you understand hellfire or was designs just being sarcastic?

  designs- what did you find wrong in the book? I like that he tries to uncover the NWT (green cover), but I have not studied it, watch most of Dr Martins vids and he always makes good points.

  Also arent Jesuits members of the roman catholic church because last time I checked he does not believe in catholicism or the pope.

  Mrs. Peck- I don't think that we can fully understand this concept as we don't have the capacity to understand GOD fully.

  Gen 1:26 And God went on to say: “Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness (NWT)", who is us? you can't say angels. This may have nothing to do with trinity but nobody knows, there are other examples through the bible. On the other hand Jesus or the apostles never taught trinity, so the bible does not make trinity clear, it's something that early christians picked on and JW's overlook.

  You said " .Jesus is God's son, he is not God", if I am son of a human, would that stop me from being human?
• 

  Leprechaun

  I just felt like something was not correct, or like god was tiring to drop me a hint to get the hell out.
• 

  Chalam

  Hello Joey Jo-Jo,

  OK, I'll try and answer those questions.

  I have been looking into trinity, from what I understand from a NT viewpoint Jesus is our God and GOD is our father?

  In the theology of God, the Trinity states that there is one God in three persons i.e. God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. All three are God, none are created but all are Creator. They talk to each other, see how the Son talks to the Father and vice versa, also the Holy Spirit intercedes in too. They are all in perfect agreement and harmony.

  Take a careful look at these three verses

  Romans 8:9-11 (New International Version)

  9 You, however, are controlled not by the sinful nature but by the Spirit, if the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. 10 But if Christ is in you, your body is dead because of sin, yet your spirit is alive because of righteousness. 11 And if the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead is living in you, he who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit, who lives in you.

  Or read John 14 and note what is said regarding the Holy Spirit in relationship to the Father and the Son.

  SO could this be mean that when Jesus says "I AM" he's referring to himself being now our God? or

  Jesus was, is and will always be God.

  Hebrews 13:8 (New International Version)

  8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

  John 1:1 (New International Version)

  The Word Became Flesh

  1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

  Philippians 2:6 (New International Version)

  6 Who, being in very nature God,
  did not consider equality with God something to be grasped

  Revelation 1:8 (New International Version)

  8 "I am the Alpha and the Omega," says the Lord God, "who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty."

  Also could Jesus be speaking as a title-being god?, e.g. Joey is president and Tom is secretary, but one day Joey feel sick for 1 day so Tom on that 1 day became president, Tom is not Joey but Tom became what I was in position/title.

  Their "title" is the same as it their name

  Matthew 28:19 (New International Version)

  19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit

  That said, they do assume different roles and have different functions. The Father did not come to earth to die for mankind, Jesus did. The Holy Spirit came after Jesus return home, not the Father. However, if you have read John 14 carefully you will see that Jesus and the Holy Spirit are interchangeable, as are Jesus and the Father.

  Also according to trinity "these 3 persons are completely equal in attributes, each with the same divine nature"

  Each have the same Divine nature. However, Jesus did not keep equality with the Father but became a Son and lowered Himself to come and serve, see Philippians 2

  Could this in harmony with the points made in Reasoning from the Scriptures?

  I do not agree with any WT publications in essence, they are of a different spirit and kingdom. Some statement might seem OK but their teachings are rotten to the core.

  Holy spirit is greater than the son of man - Matt 12:31,32

  Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is a specific sin but does not in itself say that the Holy Spirit is greater than Jesus. However, I agree with the statement in that Jesus was Himself empowered by the Spirit as are all believers John 14:12

  Father is greater than Jesus - John 14:28

  Agreed, since Jesus became His Son Hebrews 1:5

  God is more than Jesus 1 cor 11:3, 15:27-28

  In the New Testament "God" often refers to the Father and "Lord" to the Son. However, that doesn't mean that Jesus isn't God or neither that the Father isn't "Lord". Compare the Old Testaments statements that refer to "God" that are they applied to Jesus in the New Testament. Is the OT talking of the Father or Jesus or both?

  Jesus refers to Father as the one true GOD Joh 17:1-3

  Consider Jesus' statement in verse 5.

  John 17 1 When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, "Father, the hour has come;glorify your Son that the Son may glorify you, 2 since you have given him authority over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom you have given him. 3 And this is eternal life, that they know you the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom you have sent. 4 I glorified you on earth, having accomplished the work that you gave me to do. 5 And now, Father, glorify me in your own presence with the glory that I had with you before the world existed.

  Consider this verse also.

  John 5:23 (New International Version)

  23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

  The book Kingdom Of Cults makes some very good points about trinity being true, but I need to deepen my studies for a sound decision, at the moment all of this is a bit confusing for me.

  Sure, good teaching helps. On that subject can I point you to the first post in this thread please, specifically the point regarding Jesus, the Father, the Spirit, the Name and the Trinity.

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/184632/1/The-Bible-and-Religious-Cults-an-article-from-the-ESV-Study-bible-including-JWs However, the main thing is the read a decent version of the bible (anything but the NWT) and ask the Holy Spirit to come and teach you :) Blessings, Stephen
• 

  designs

  Out luring people into your Cult Stephen. Amazing how you never seem to grasp the obvious contradictions in your Trinity belief, but that's the power of religious delusion.

  Don't look to deep, that's the message.......
• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  Thanks for your input Stephen, ill look into it.

  Joey
• 

  Ri

  John Locke....My feelings exactly.....God doesn't have an Organization
• 

  MMXIV

  Maybe the WTS will soon explain the trinity as... God is from one generation. Jesus is from another generation. Their generations overlap so evidently they are the same generation. Therefore they are the same being too.

  The JW's don't have the truth because:

  1) the generation. I mean seriously, that's not new light - it's a power cut and the generator's dodgy too.

  2) literature & meetings are not logical, based on fact or accurate. it's the same tired propaganda

  3) they lie to recruit people, apply lots of pressure on them and then once you're dipped - you can never leave. There are rules about selling insurance that should apply to joining a cult.

  4) they don't protect their flock from paedofiles. If God was running that organisation it wouldn't have had such poor policies that were only changed to stop lawsuits. It is an organisation that attracts and harbours such people. Parents - never let your kids out of your sight. Ever. Do not trust anyone in the KH, at the DC or at Bethel no matter what their rank.

  5) the preaching work is such an ineffective, time wasting campaign. There is no way that the majority of the world gets any kind of understanding of what the Good News is. It's an organised failure.

  6) women are treated like second class citizens. Sorry sisters, male JW's do think they're more important than you.

  7) Way too many are dishonest, unloving, selfish, bullying, manipulative liars. One could understand one or two waiting to be weeded out - but so many??!! JW's don't have a good reputation - just the decent, honest sincere ones do.

  8) They cannot predict anything for toffee, they're making it all up as they go along.

  9) $$$$$$$$$$. would Jesus, who spent his time preaching really approve of an organisation that spends so much time and money on creating a real estate empire? would he?

  10) fear. So many of the people in it today are born-in without any choice and their whole social world will be cut off if they left.

  11) blood. I give blood transfusions that may save a JW's life (assuming it's taken in their new justified format) but they won't do the same for me. thanks.

  MMXIV