by oldlightnewshite 172 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
It is ironic that in the above article the wt warned about the United Nations as a counterfeit of God's Kingdom. On another thread, debator defends the wt's association with the UN as an NGO.
Ah the verbal webs he/she weaves... kinda makes me dizzy...
Coffee
Jesus has been ruling for 96 years now. What's he been doing all this time?
The entire book of Revelation is symbolic except for the number 144,000- which is literal. Seriously?
There is no Scripural precedent for recording and reporting time spent preaching.
Since I've been alive the "generation" of Matthew 24 went from being the generation of 1914 to the wicked. Then, no, it's not the wicked, it's the anointed. Then, the generation is not one, but two overlapping generations of the anointed. Give me a break.
The words "faithful and discreet slave" appear more in one paragraph of the WT than the entire Bible.
Hi coffee-black
We are not debating the requirements to be a prophet but the requirements to be false prophets and the Bible simply says they have to claim inspiration, signs, miracles, anti-christs etc The witnesses have claimed none of these.
Again the Bible is specific for the requirements of both and trying to muddy the waters by saying that just claiming to be a prophet can make you a false prophet is ridiculous.
To be a false prophet you have to show specific Bible written requirements for this and the witnesses have shown none of them.
Hi Jimmy
Things only have to be in the Bible once! There isn't a "how many times" option for believing various biblical doctrines. Take "born Again" this actually only appears in the Bible once, among others.
and actually the faithful and discreet servant/manager/slave appears twice. in matt and Luke.
Luke 12:41-43 (New International Version)
41 Peter asked, "Lord, are you telling this parable to us, or to everyone?"
42 The Lord answered, "Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom the master puts in charge of his servants to give them their food allowance at the proper time? 43 It will be good for that servant whom the master finds doing so when he returns.
Matthew 24:44-46 (New International Version)
44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.
45 "Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns.
Prophecy interpreting is notoriously difficult since it is the only time we have to look outside the Bible to the world around us for fulfillment and there isn't one single scripture that says getting it wrong condemns you! in fact we are cautioned to keep looking and testing it so as to be more accurate.
F off, Renaiia.
debator:
why JW are to called false prophets ?
1) as in the WT article above seen, they call themselves prophets. and not just to warn people, also to declare what to come !!! Of course, since 1975, they were careful to promote dates, but saying for 30 years, Armageddon is around the corner, falls into the category of false prophecy. Especially the generation of 1914, that will not go before the end. Any JW in the early 90`s calculated a generation with max 80 years, so they expected the end for sure before 2000 !! And the org approved of this ! But time ran out, and 95 they had to change the definition of generation, because their interpretation failed.
2) wheter to call the information from the GB as spirit inspired or spirit directed is just a matter of semantics. In both cases it is claimed that Gods spirit is involved, and the information had divine origin or at least divine approval !
3) the message was always clear: it was never written in a way, that would qualify it as theory or speculation, rather it is expected from R&F to accept anything from the FDS as given from God !!! and questioning them would mean to question God !
Debator/Reniaa,
Deuteronomy 18 v 22 :
"When the prophet speaks in the name of Jehovah and the word does not occur or come true, that is the word that Jehovah did not speak. " NWT.
Nothing about miracles and great signs, just a simple way to identify a false (= lying) prophet.
The WT fits this criteria so so many times over, their prophetic words have NEVER " occurred or come true "
Hey, Debator/Reniiaa,
You kind of just answered your own question there...the requirements to be false prophets and the Bible simply says they have to claim inspiration
Coffee-black's posting of the Watchtower says 'today they are known as Jehovah's Christian Witnesses.' (talking about prophets)
Everybody's trying to make it simple for you! I think it's commendable that you try to persuade people on here, you obviously have a strong faith, but you do know that you're partaking from the table of demons? Don't you? I used to go to visit Russellites on the ministry but was expressly forbidden by the elders. I was quite sure of my faith and the accuracy of my arguement. You seem to be doing the same thing, with the same mindset as I once had, debating issues with who you considered unbelievers. I really do hope a lot of your conversations you've had on here will at some point help you to question your beliefs in doctrine. We have all more or less come to the same conclusion that the Watchtower Society is a rudderless ship. We have all come to this idea independently, with no influence by a certain group. This is all independent conclusions.There are thousands and thousands of us that arrived here by our own thought processes. Doesn't this at least make you the slightest bit suspicious of the WatchTower doctrine?
As I say, keep coming and posting. You afford more people the chance to re-affirm in their own minds the fact that the WatchTower is misguided, by their written answers to you.
HI wobble and inbetween.
I have debated False prophets on a number of occasions on this site.
The requirements have to be biblical! not personal opinion Inbetween. Accusations that they are false prophets and dishonestly quoting one scripture from a whole chapter deut 18 as proof, Wobble, to avoid the context is very dishonest.
18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death."
21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by Jehovah ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of Jehovah does not take place or come true, that is a message Jehovah has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
This is the acknowledged blueprint for knowing if a prophets words are inspired of God the actual "words spoken by Jehovah" This is how we know that books where to be part of the Bible it is also a prophecy concerning Jesus who would be able to tell us his fathers words directly.
Witnesses have never claimed the ability to speak words directly from Jehovah, to be inspired! therefore they do not qualify as false prophets by the very words of this chapter.
Hi oldlight
Claiming to be a prophet does not make you a false prophet. Fulfilling specific Bible requirements for false prophecy makes you a false prophet.
I reiterate Jehovah's witnesses have never done any of the Biblical requirements to be false prophets. Getting already written biblical prophecy or chronology wrong (in your opinion) is not a requirement.
Interesting you had contact with Russelites.
They originally out-numbered those that became Jehovah witnesses by two thirds and still retain many similar teachings but in looking at the two groups today what do we find?
Russelites still only number in the thousands clinging to the teachings and adulation of one man alone and Jehovah's witnesses have grown into millions, a world-wide fully acknowledge religion known for preaching Jehovah's kingdom message (rather than any man shepherding them) in every country as per biblical requirements.
Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
Of the both which is the rudderless ship?
Watchtower July 1st 1973 page 402 paragraph 6 (writing about the 1914 prediction) :
" Only God by his holy spirit could have revealed this to those early Bible students so far in advance."
Twist the meaning of word as much as you like Debator, but this is a direct claim to inspiration and claiming to speak words directly from Jehovah.
As an avid reader of the WT's writings you will know that there are hundreds of such claims. please be honest with us,or more importantly with yourself, just once.
