*Grace* According to JW's. Your thoughts will be appreciated.

by Lily Pie 272 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  isaacaustin

  A JW will quote James 2:20 and say "faith without works is dead." My question is to whom is faith without works dead??

  What does the next verse say?

  20 You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless d ? 21 Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

  Who was he considered righteous to?

  Romans 4

  1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter? 2 If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God. 3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness." [

  Abrhama was justifed before God by his faith, as Romas 4 and James 2:23 says. He was justified before man by his works. God reads the heart and can see faith apart from the works, while man can not.
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  Deputy Dog

  Isaac

  I couldn't agree more.

  On that note I'm off to Blue Mountain.
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  caliber

  his faith was more than an acknowledgment of Christ's existence, but also belief in His mercy, and enough that he would ask to be remembered.

  So his faith in a sense did have works. Works that came from the heart

  A beautiful statement thanks !

  The LORD works righteousness and justice for all the oppressed. He made known his ways to Moses, his deeds to the people of Israel: The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. 9 He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us. Psalms 103:6-12 NIV.

  Just as the heavens are higher than the earth, so my ways are higher than your ways, and my thoughts are higher than your thoughts ..Isa 55

  To Design.. I feel somewhat able to argue the proper use of the word Grace vs undeserved kindness... I dare not argue against the whole idea of Grace because of the above scriptural thought !

  It really gets down to what is the true meaning of fear in this context

  “The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge.” Until we understand who God is and develop a reverential fear of Him, we cannot have true wisdom. True wisdom comes only from understanding who God is and that He is holy, just, and righteous

  A magnet can push away or draw close .... some see God as pushing them into a corner , I prefer to feel his drawing and attraction !

  No person can create faith or belief in another person..... you can't make someone love you only an honest & trusting relationship can initiate that !
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  isaacaustin

  Tammy, what you said agrees with John 6:

  28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”
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  Mad Sweeney

  What if your faith is in something/someone else (something/someone not called Christ) because you had the bad luck of being born among the 2/3 of the world that is non-Christian? Do you still have grace?
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  isaacaustin

  I think so, Mad Sweeney.
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  miseryloveselders

  I've often wondered about that too. I just happened to be born into a family of devout JWs. Is there no hope for the kid who just happened to be born in the Middle East? Not his fault where he ended up. Plus considering that we as humans are made in God's image, if we're sympathetic towards other faiths and peoples who didn't have a choice of where they were born and what faith they were indoctrinated into, wouldn't God be sympathetic too? I feel like Abraham when he was making the case for sparing Sodom and Gomorrah if only 5 righteous souls could be found in the city. Or God's sympathy towards the Ninehvites after Jonah prophesied to them. It seems cruel and unfair to believe God would terminate whole peoples who could not change where they were born and how they were raised. What does the WT call that? Community guilt or something?
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  caliber

  miseryloveselders .....

  Is there no hope for the kid who just happened to be born in the Middle East? Not his fault where he ended up

  .

  Every person in the world is given by nature a heart with conscience and a mind with thoughts which reflect the law of God. They may choose to obey or not to obey them. It is their choice. "Rom 2:14... when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another

  Matt 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory: 32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:..... 34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:.. 37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, ...

  The above is the description of the judgment of the entire world. They were separated into two groups. The two groups are not Christians and Non-Christians, but the Righteous and the Unrighteous

  John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son..
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  caliber

  To allow our" limited "understanding of things to put "limited "results upon God's grace is not wise .

  Community guilt or responsibility is a term used to explain away why over half of the world has not even heard of Jehovah Witnesses yet these people are supposedly condemned in the end . (did respond to theJW good news )
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  miseryloveselders

  Thanks Caliber, you know its amazing how nonsensible it is when you think about how the WT teaches that only they will gain salvation. It flies in the face of logic and compassion.