by brotherdan 121 Replies latest jw friends
"If you are not planning to interfere with her practice of Watchtower-ism, she has no scriptural grounds to divorce you. If she divorces you anyway, she will not be Free to Remarry TM . She won't even be free to date other JW males. She won't be allowed any unchaperoned male companionship. ..."
Ooooo, Scully!! I like the way you think!!!
Can she picture a life like that??
Doggone good question...
Sounds like an "ace in your pocket" to me...
BrotherDan,
I checked your other thread, and am sad to see it come to this. I hope it's not too late for you to start working together or with a counselor, but it takes two to make that happen. If separation is inevitable, try your best to have a civilized discussion first, so you both can make the necessary preparations: financial, housing, and taking care of the children.
I agree about protecting yourself financially, but you can't ignore her and your children either. Non-support doesn't work morally, nor legally. Perhaps you should have separate bank accounts, with an agreed-on support allowance you send every payday. That way both of you have a known budget to live on, and you will have a track record of supporting them should the need arise.
You also need an agreement on joint parenting. They need you as much as ever, as a regular part of their lives. Check into any classes available (or required) for separated parents where you live. I found those to be helpful; that's where I learned about the "you" vs. "us" language I brought up on the other thread.
Stay strong, you can and will see this through. You have us and our prayers behind you.
My 2 cents, love bomb her, before they do.
After I da'd they showered my husband with pity and help and support, "poor guy, satan got his family". He was barely active before, and now he goes full board. His mission is to get me back in, but I can't in good conscience do that. We are separated, I left. I have been trying, but no matter what he puts the jws first. He puts off visits with me to see them. He constantly preaches. Ugh! Scully is right, she doesn't have grounds, but you want her to be with you because she wants to be, not have to be. Show her you have more in common than religious beliefs. You will respect her, but you ask for the same courtesy.
My sympathies for what you're going through BrotherDan. I'm not sure I like the idea of telling her it's all your fault and you'll try to be a JW again. Simply, because its not true and I don't think a marrriage can survive long term if its built on a foundation of dishonesty and mistrust.
I think what you could tell her, which is true, is that you are on the same path. You both still believe in God. You both still believe in the Bible. You both love your children and want to do what's best for them. Those are all paths you share and those are the big ones. Disagreeing about Bible interpretations of what Jesus and Jehovah and the apostles MIGHT have meant, are the small things and not worth rifting a family over.
You could then point out some scriptures for her that agree with you. There is one somewhere about not fighting over words and interpretations. There is one about Jehovah hates a divorcing. There is one about not leaving an unbelieving mate who is willing to dwell with you. Read those scriptures to her calmly and with love. Tell her you are willing to stop talking about your different interpretations to her because it is causing fighting and emotional upset. (This is not the same as admitting your wrong or agreeing to be a JW). Tell her that you do not want to divorce her. Tell her that you are willing to dwell with her even though she doesn't believe as you do. You are willing to follow those three scriptures. They are main ones for counseling Christians on differences in marriage and belief. Is she willing? Ask her? Ask her to explain why she is not willing to follow the scriptures on these important family matters? Ask her is she truly believes in her heart that it would be more upsetting for your son to see mommy and daddy disagree, resolve it or call a truce, and continue to dwell together, than it would be for him to have a broken family?
If she tries to pull the "spiritual endangerment" excuse, tell her that you are willing to stop talking to her about religion and endangering her spiritual viewpoint. In return you only ask that she respect your right to not go to the KH or listen to her viewpoints. In short, call a truce.
If she wants to save your marriage, she will agree to your terms. If she doesn't, some part of her probably wants out or wanted out anyway. Many JW's have this delusion that they can get rid of the unbeliever, wait for them to commit adultery and live happily ever after with a good theocratic brother. If she seems to want to go that route, you can remind her that the odds are not in her favor. The life of a single mom with small kids is a hard row to hoe for a regular woman, never mind a JW. Don't make it too easy for her.
If she insists on separating, don't help her by moving out, or helping her more than what is your court ordered child and spousal support. Insist on joint custody and use the JW crap against her in court to get it. It is against the law where I live to alienate one parent due to religion. Document every case of her doing this starting now, before you ever separate. Dates, times, word for word in a diary what was said and done.
You may lose your wife. In the end, that's her choice. It won't be because you were unreasonable and didn't compromise. It will be because deep down, that's what she wanted. You do not have to lose your kids too.
Hope this is helpful. Please let us know how it unfolds.
Cog
Cog -
Wise words, Dan.
have you managed to get some legal advice yet?
if your wife is beyond reach you need to start the process to make sure you're not alienated from your children as well.
Lot of good recommendations on here...
Thanks all..
And Scully thanks for pointing out the part about if they seperate or divorce she will not be free to remarry ..at least until she catches him actually having sex with someone else (there must be at least two witnesses..lol)
Snoozy
I understand the good intentions of those who are advising you to seek legal help, etc. right away. I am an old woman, and so I have an opinion that is based on many years of watching this happen to others. I think it is always a mistake in marriage to ever even MENTION a divorce. You cannot work out problems in separate homes. It is the first step down the path of divorce. You cannot go off the deep end because you two have had what is clearly a really horrible disagreement. You can withdraw some (some) money to care for your own needs, but do you want to give her the perception that you have stopped caring for her needs? This is a very critical time. You may be thinking how this cannot work because of these differences, but she is not the problem, she is only part of the problem. She feels the same as you do. It's hard to see the other person's hurt and sense of abandonment at a time like this. Her parents should be doing everything they can to support the marriage, it's a parents job to help preserve a marriage if at all possible.
Don't discount the outcome of this for your children. I am not trying to put a "guilt trip" on you, but you cannot just think of the problems of the two of you. It is a life changing experience for them, it is a pain for all children. You are obviously having feelings of "not being able to continue to be a hypocrite". but your feelings are not the only ones that count. I am sure that what I am saying is not as comforting as what some others have said, but I feel I need to speak truth to younger ones.
Someone said to me on my first post, "You don't have to DO anything. Breathe...." It's good advice. I know it's not fair to have to put this on you just because you are the man in this story, but I would give your wife the same advice. Whoever does it, try to preserve the marriage. These things can be worked out. But you have to do it together, not apart. Don't pay attention to the harsh words now. Now is the time for soft words, the words of a man who loves you. She is unreasonable now, but she is still a woman. Listen to Yknot. She gives the words of a woman, from the female perspective.
Don't rush to judgement. Take your time, please.
Brodan - I am so sorry for you, I know how much you love your wife and so you must be hurting like crazy, way more than I can imagine.
so (((((hugs))))) to you and I pray you receive all the peace your heart deserves.
BrotherDan, my heart goes out to you. It hits way to close to home. I'm so sorry for your pain. Great advice from everyone. This religion makes it all about the org and not the marriage or family. Please point out to your wife that it's YOUR FAMILY that will get hurt in all this. The organization will go on while you both live in pain. How are they going to make up for a broken family? How are they going to console your children? Perhaps call a truce for the timebeing till you both calm down. You cannot make sane decisions from insane emotions. Perhaps suggest marriage counselling and at some point down the line bring up the religious division - maybe the counsellor can open her eyes a little.
In the meantime you will have to restrain yourself. Stop talking religion! It's been hard but I have had to shut up. Stop. Cease and desist. It goes nowhere. We cannot MAKE anyone see what they cannot see. They are not ready. It took you and I time and a process to get to where we are. It is not fair for us to expect them to get there instantly. We do not have to prove anything to them. We can only change ourselves. All we can do is love them and give them time. Let her go to the meetings. Be firm but loving in your stance that you cannot go at this time and/or make a time you feel you can go once in a while.
One thing I did say to my husband is that when we researched preschools for our son when he was younger - we checked everything out and took our time because he is precious - we don't want to entrust his care and wellbeing to someone we didn't thoroughly check out. I compared it to the WT and that I found something terribly wrong. I then said that it is his parental DUTY and OBLIGATION to look into where he is entrusting his son now. I left it at that.
I'm living this day by day just as you are - trial and error. Please hang in there.
My thoughts are with you.
Hadit
