Welcome Sobrino, whatever your beliefs are.
No one is going to Heaven (and my introduction to the forum)
by sobrino1 135 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
-
-
badseed
What if we just die and go nowhere. Doesn't the bible also say that we simply return to dust (or something like that). No proof exists otherwise.
-
ziddina
Brother Dan...
SOR-ry!!!
"I know, I got heated on this one. Most of it was pure bordom... "
I swear, I'm going to the dollar store and pick up some toys to amuse you... I'll send them with the books, winky wink wink...
Zid
-
Chalam
Matthew 22:31-32 (New International Version)
31 But about the resurrection of the dead—have you not read what God said to you, 32 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob'? He is not the God of the dead but of the living."
John 11:25-26 (New International Version)
25 Jesus said to her, "I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me will live, even though he dies; 26 and whoever lives and believes in me will never die. Do you believe this?"
James 2:26 (New International Version)
26 As the body without the spirit is dead
Blessings,
Stephen
-
Leolaia
The way I see things, eschatology in early Judaism and Christianity was in flux; it wasn't one single monolithic thing. There were thus many different ideas and views that are represented in the various writings that have been preserved from that era. So, for instance, some regarded the dead as residing in a subterranean or terrestial abode in their postmortem state (as found in the Book of Watchers in 1 Enoch and in 4 Ezra), while others posited a heavenly abode (as attested in Josephus, Paul, Revelation, etc.). The former may well have been the older Jewish view (drawing on OT concepts of Sheol) whereas the latter may have been an accommodation to Hellenistic views (as suggested by the terminology used). An even further accommodation was a view of immortality without resurrection, which I think fairly represents the views of some texts. But the idea of heavenly ascent at death (whether or not a resurrection is to follow) is a common one in early Judaism and Christianity, as found such writings as the Testament of Abraham, the Greek Life of Adam and Eve, the Assumption of Moses (which also has eschatological Israel raised up to live in heaven where they will look down on their enemies from above, 10:8-10), etc.
-
tec
Welcome, Sobrino.
I enjoyed your perspective, regardless of whether its true or not. Sometimes its good to hear about something from 'outside the box'.
Tammy
-
Lozhasleft
Leolaia love it
Loz x
-
dysfunction
Frankly I do not want to go to heaven because there is no food, sex, or sleep. There is a saying 'be careful what you ask for. Welcome to JWN.
-
Mary
Sobrino1 has apparently swapped one cult for another. His/her idea that the bible does not teach that Christians go to heaven is strikingly similar to what the Worldwide Church of God teaches. They go to extraordinary lengths to try and explain away all the scriptures that clearly state that the bible does teach that heaven is the destination of Christians and say 'well, it could mean this, or that', blah, blah, blah.
Here's a link on what Garner Ted Armstrong wrote on the subject (that he inherited from his father---another whack-job):
-
notverylikely
Jesus is FROM heaven because he is God.
And Dan, it's also easy to cherry pick scripture and ignore those where Jesus clearly says he is NOT the father :)
Chistian eschatology is so full of contradiction and a mishmash of jewish and oither beliefs you HAVE to pick and choose to come up with any particular belief.
Every single text you mentioned, you read it w/ a presupposition and yet you say that my exegesis and hermeneutics aren't sound.
Hold this up as a mirror when you understand it ALSO applies to everything you are writing, then you will understand.