I agree - if I understand what you mean by "consistent scrutiny". The truth of the matter is that we all start from presuppositions. If we didn't have axioms, we wouldn't able to draw conclusions.
MadDawg, the presupposition that a particular holy book is from the creator of everything is NOT an axiom. A presupposition is a supposition made prior to having knowledge. That doesn't automatically make it an axiom. People hold innumerable presuppositions that are not universally accepted.
Belief in the Bible or Koran as being of divine origin - those are not axioms, they're presuppositions. When children adopt such a belief from their parents before they've thoroughly researched it (from a neutral perspective), you can be sure it's a presupposition. Same goes for children of atheists, though. Like Nick said, they'd be just as foolish as those who blindly accept the existence of God just because they have been told He exists.
The point is, if we know that 1.5 or so billion people on the other side of the world have a parallel presupposition (which contradicts our own) and they base their lives on it (just as we do our own), perhaps all of us would do best to release our childhood presuppositions and perform an unbiased (or suppressed bias) search for truth as adults.
If I leave one group because of an attitude, I am not about to join another with the same attitude. BTW, those same GARBC Baptists basically shun me and consider me to be an apostate bound for Hell.
What I find strange is how quickly some folks generalize all non-believers. We don't all have the same beliefs, neither do we all have the same attitude. I for one have deistic leanings but don't believe I have evidence for a god-being in the popular sense of the word. So I suppose I'm an atheist in the sense that I'm without theism. Now some atheists might say "THERE IS NO GOD". I can only say I personally don't see evidence enough to believe in God. Those are two different statements. If you don't understand that, well, too bad for you.
What I find strange is that while claiming that there is no Truth, they believe that they alone have the Truth.
I don't think any group alone has a monopoly on "the truth". We're all ignorant. Some just practice it... as faith.
Here is a truth that is shared by atheists: Self-refuting entities cannot exist. On the other hand, many religious people believe in self-refuting beings (based on their god's description in his holy book). When a god such as Yahweh is found to be self-refuting in the way he is described by his followers, I can eliminate him as being a real entity, at least in that description of him. In fact, you and I are probably very similar in the number of gods we can eliminate as being real - Zeus, Allah, Thor, Molech, Ra, etc.... I just go one single step further. (... to paraphrase Stephen Roberts.)
In other words, if a person has any ability to think, the only conclusion they can come to is to agree with atheists. If one concludes that there is a God, weeeellllll... that is evidence in itself that they are incapable of rational thought.
If you choose to be offended when someone points out there's no evidence for your god, that's your prerogative, but don't put words in my mouth. Your line is similar to one JW friend who was listening to my reasons for no longer accepting WT doctrine: "Oh, so all JWs are incapable of rational thought??" No, not incapable. That's strawman reasoning. Most rationalists I know previously had belief in Yahweh and were JWs.
Just because some people can't turn a cartwheel doesn't mean they're incapable of it. They just have to learn, most of them. The same goes for critical thinking. Many who are raised in religious households are not trained with critical thinking skills as children and end up deficient in that area as adults. That was true of me. The difference is I recognized that fact and took steps to educate myself and build those skills. Still working on it but it's much easier to see a lack of it now.
Do Baptists have the same line of thinking? Yep. If you are going to climb into that boat with them, that is your problem.
Ah, yes, all atheists and Baptists in the same boat. That'd be an interesting party. Is that another axiom?
Look, I certainly don't condemn anyone. But if I expose someone's flawed logic when they try to assert that I should worship their invisible god, I'm like a Baptist?
I am no more interested in hearing Fundy Atheists preach and lecture at me than I am some preacher from the God Almighty Righteous Baptist Church.
Then don't listen to them. And if you perceive a "Fundy Atheist" is preaching at you on a thread, feel free to close and move on to a "Fundy Prejudice" thread where I'm sure you'll find people who think like you.
I am more than willing to exchange ideas with anyone. The whole reason I am on this board is to share ideas with others and to get a broader idea what others are thinking.
Cool. So what did you think of the open-mindedness video? Would you classify that guy a "fundy atheist"? I thought he was very logical in his reasoning. And I believe the open mind he describes is one of the keys to our progress as a human race.
