If Armageddon came tomorrow, would Jehovah kill a billion children?

by just n from bethel 168 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sabastious

  I wasn't avoiding the death of children. In fact I started a thread about it a few months ago.

  People tend to assume that ALL children are innocent, even if their parents are doing bad things. The assumption is unfounded. For example, Palestinian Muslim children are officially taught in grammar school to hate their Jewish neighbors.They are so well indoctrinated that some of them give up their lives in suicide bombings as children.Corruption literally does breed corruption, which is why God did not want the Hebrews tainted by the other corrupt cultures of the Middle East.

  Do I justify the killing of children? Of course not. But God in his Omniscience knew what the outcome would be if they did not devote all things to destruction in Canaan. And true enough, when they did not devote all things to destruction, they were corrupted.

  You are a fiery man... full of passion, I respect you.

  I have to question your logic in the quote. At the end you say it's absurd to justify the killing of children but at the same time, in the paragraph above it, you typed out a defense of God's children killings using an example and everything.

  I have read you tell many on this forum that it is not for them to question God. Well that goes both ways, it is not for you to defend God. Do you think you are qualified to defend Him? He obviously doesn't care whether we can wrap our heads around His Plan anyway or his books wouldn't need apologists. If you try take a human line of defense for God's mysterious actions you are always going to have to fill in the logic holes with fallacy.

  What is your obsession with God's defense anyway? God will be fine, Dan. He's doesn't feel disrespected by the trival criticism of his creations. What are you defending? I would venture to guess thats it's actually not God that you are defending but possibly something completely different.

  -Sab
• 

  mindmelda

  Of course he would! He's the God of stomping the crap out of everyone who doesn't distribute Watchtowers, dontcha know?

  Of course the Jews or Hebrews thought He was great stomping their enemies, regardless of age...every Bronze Age Tribe had a big sky god who helped them defeat their enemies...Yahweh was it for the Hebrews. Yahweh has all the same elements as any other Bronze Age Tribal War/Sky god.

  He just got a lot more advertising because the Hebrews were scrupulous about keeping their language, culture and history alive by being Semitic, the first race to develop writing.

  At least the Jews were largely honest enough to report that their people were barbaric douchebags too, often enough. The Hebrews come across as bloodthirsty and stupid as any other people from that time...maybe a bit cleaner and more educated in general for various reasons, but I wouldn't wanna live back then.
• 

  brotherdan

  At the end you say it's absurd to justify the killing of children but at the same time, in the paragraph above it, you typed out a defense of God's children killings using an example and everything.

  I was giving hypothetical examples as to WHY God would allow children to die. People wanted a reason, so I gave a possible reason. It may or may not be true. But I don't PERSONALLY justify HUMANS killing children.

  I defend God because the Bible commands it. It allows us to question God (many of the ancient patriarchs and prophets did), and I never said we cannot question Him. But what I HAVE said is that it is God's right to do what God will do. It is his RIGHT. I said that in our limited understanding how can we presume to know exactly why God did what He did? We don't have all the facts. We don't know what He foresaw in the future that would happen if he did not give the commands that He gave.

  What is your obession with God's defense anyway? God will be fine, Dan.

  I'm not doing it for God's benefit. He doesn't need me. If He DID need someone, it would be someone a whole lot more qualified that I am. But the Bible says at 1 Peter 3:15 - "But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect"

  Now I have not always had an easy time of the last sentence...but I'm trying.
• 

  snowbird

  You go, Bro Dan!!!

  Not only will he kill a billion children, he will also let them know that he is Jehovah. Picture Jehovah running into an african refugee camp, holding his glock sideways and saying "I'm Jehovah, bitch!" and then shooting all those poor children to death. Now go around your neighborhood to share this good news.

  Or, picture "Jehovah" rampaging through an affluent American, Asian, or European neighborhood, smiting children right and left. He is not a respecter of persons, right?

  That kind of puts things in a different perspective, doesn't it?

  Syl
• 

  just n from bethel

  Oh and just so you know Dan, I'm a bit older than you and have read the Bible (many translations) cover to cover many times through. It gets old listening to you say that people here haven't really read the bible but pick and choose. You seem to be more about picking and choosing with the whole 'evil idol worshiping ancient cultures kill children = bad' vs. 'Big Bad Awesome Jewish Christian God kills children = good".

  You have some serious cognitive dissonance going on and you can't even see it. You really need to look into yourself. I know you're afraid that your beliefs based on your presuppositions of when and where you were born - just won't be true. It's a scary thought, I know, I've been there. But if you're really interested in truth and not fairy tales, then you'll have to start thinking logically with fact based research, and not on emotions that come from your environment and tradition-based background.
• 

  sabastious

  I defend God because the Bible commands it.

  I'm not doing it for God's benefit. He doesn't need me. If He DID need someone, it would be someone a whole lot more qualified that I am.

  So you have agreed to blindly follow God's commandments, through the Bible, no matter what because the Bible is God's Word. Then you admit that you are probably doing a crappy job and he doesn't need you. Is that correct? When I read your posts I get the feeling that you are confident with your Biblical defenses. So these statements of yours don't make sense to me.

  -Sab
• 

  brotherdan

  if you're really interested in truth and not fairy tales, then you'll have to start thinking logically with fact based research

  According to you, what is truth? I do much fact based research outside of the Bible. And I've posted my views on evolution and atheism on other threads. They just don't hold up, to me. I don't have any cognitive dissonance going on. It may seem that way to you, but the conclusions I've come to (IMO) are the best that I can accept based on available information.

  When I question your knowledge of the Bible it is because some of the things that you have brought up are clearly talked about in the Bible and you haven't acknowledged them. It would be like me acting like an expert on the arguments of Richard Dawkins when I don't fully understand why he has said the things he's said. But if I was offensive by saying you didn't know the Bible, then I apologize.
• 

  brotherdan

  When I read your posts I get the feeling that you are confident with your Biblical defenses. So these statements of yours don't make sense to me.

  I am making a defense of my faith. I'm trying to show that I believe in God. I am to defend God to others according to what I've learned about Him and Jesus Christ. I don't see how this doesn't make sense. I am strong in my faith. And I am confident in my hope. God does not NEED little ol' me. If I can help 1 person to see that the accusations of God being a murderous monster are invalid then it's worth it to me. According to the Bible that person would have been helped by someone else eventually, but I consider it an honor if I can be used as part of God's purpose.

  I guess it would be like me saying, "Evolutionary thought does not need your defense Sab. Why do you feel like you need to defend it. It will live on without you."
• 

  just n from bethel

  I promise you haven't offened me. That's impossible to do with me, especially on an anonymous internet forum. I'd have to be the world's biggest baby to let words here get under my skin. Does all this talk of others not knowing their bible by a recent born-again 30 year old bore me? Yes indeed.

  I'm quite confident, I could easily pick apart your version of bible theology as many others have already done. From your interpretation of Bible accounts I'm quite sure I can say I know it way better than you. I know you believe in the literal interpretation of the Bible accounts so stick with them if you want. Go on believing that the flood happened worldwide exactly as described in the Bible. That Jehovah killed babies and did so violently and barbaric all for a just and good reason. And believe that he will do it again. JWs and Xians apparently do agree on some things. But you have never in any of your posts put up any evidence to show this is true and factual - the math just doesn't exist for the past events to even be possible. So - yes, you believe in fairy tales. It is because you want to - not because you've found evidence to support your beliefs. I just don't care about arguing over biblical theology. Leolaia, TD, Terry, and others have shown the Bible to be so fictional on so many levels, there's no need for me to add anything further - because, frankly, it's such a bore at this point in my life.

  But it's fine with me if you want to believe that you've got sound evidence for belieiving in the bible even though you can't provide proof. And believe it or not, even if you believe that God is going to kill "1/3 of the world's population" for not belieiving in mythical stories with no evidence to back them, I still tolerate your beliefs. Even if you well know that the prediction the bible makes to kill off the unbeliever population includes possibly a billion helpless children - that's cool that you can rationalize it. JWs do the same thing, and I still tolerate, even love many of them. That's my peaceful motto from now on. Tolerance, even the wacko Xian beliefs.

  You believe that God magically uses his spirit to call specific individuals, mainly those living in western Judeo-Christian parts of the world, fair enough. I believe that our innate sense of rationality and logic and search for truth is calling you to seek reality. To seek what it really means to be human. To seek the truth: that a hope that billions will die at the hand of a brutal God-induced violent day of judgement, including millions of children, well - that's not a real hope. That is a bible-based hope though, it's just not real, like the majority of bible accounts or it's descriptions of god aren't real.
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  whereami

  Well said just in from bethel, well said.