Looks Like I'm Back on the Radar- my Daughter has Local Elder Call on Me

by flipper 200 Replies latest members private

  • flipper
    flipper

    It happened so suddenly . Saturday morning I'm grappling to pull my sweats on with our dogs going ape-$hit - somebody's knocking on the door . The man presents himself as an elder from the local congregation in my area. He said he gave a talk at my daughter's congregation and she asked him if he'd call on me. ( thanks loads daughter. ) For the last 7 years I've presented myself as an unbelieving relative to any JW's calling on our door so as to be able to talk openly to them. This last Saturday my secret agent man cloak of secrecy fell off the table.

    Well, no problem or disaster that I shouldn't be able to handle, right ? So in order to still reach out to my pioneer daughter I felt like I should be decent to this guy , or at least civil. So I invited him in and offered him coffee ! After he took a seat on the couch I explained to him how much I love my JW daughter and told him that she has shunned me for 7 years , never returns my phone calls even though I send pictures of my JW family associating with my wife & me and my inactive son. I never get letters in return when asking how her and her husband are doing though just inactive. He said, " That's not right ! Your daughter should be associating with you ! I will call her and tell her she should NOT shun her father. " I said, " It certainly doesn't seem Christian to me . Doesn't make me want to come back. "

    Then I proceeded to explain to him that I stopped attending in late 2003 due to unjust treatment by elders in meetings with them and that it was irritating that I always received personal opinions as counsel from them instead of Bible or WT publication counsel . I told him - " The counsel they gave actually disagreed with what we were tauht in the Bible OR the publications. Just personal views. " He looked at me shaking his head in agreement and said he had observed that before himself with other elders.

    Then I said I had doubts about some policies of the organization and that I'd done research over the years I've not attended meetings. I told him I disagreed with the child abuse policies of the WT society just protecting the appearance of the WT society to the media and not caring for the abuse victims. He said nothing . Didn't refute it. Then I stated I disagreed with the view of higher education. I explained I had JW friends who send me the WT magazines regularly and they have told me that elders & ministerial servants can be deleted or lose their positions if they support their own children attending college. He flatly stated " That's NOT true. The WT society supports education for our younger people ! " Then I stated that I had problems with the blood transfusion policies. I told him that several years ago the organization said it was O.K. to take " blood fractions " and justified it by saying it came from water- but I stated the fractions actually STILL come from blood . So what about the thousands who have lost their lives before who didn't take fractions ? He said, " Well - blood transfusions or fractions are a conscience matter now. " Incredible.

    Then came the clincher. I mentioned I have lots of questions about the " overlapping generation " theory that is being taught since last year. I told him, " Didn't Jesus say that " this generation will by no means pass away until these things occur and then the end will come ? " I don't remember him saying " these two overlapping generations will by no means pass away and then the end will come. " I continued, " I feel the WT society has kept the generation thing going into an overlap scenario to keep their end game going. The ones at the top of the organization have a lot to gain from keeping the generation thing going. " He asked, " What do they have to gain ? " I replied, " You and I both know that those back at Bethel and the top of the organization get free medical insurance, free meals, free lodging - and are basically taken care of for life if they continue in their positions. They don't have to work in the outside world like you and me and unless they LEAVE their positions they are set for life. " He looked at me like he agreed that the " generation overlap " was bogus AND he seemed to really think about what I was telling him about Bethel leaders.

    So at that point he said he needed to get going as he had others waiting in the car for him. This discussion lasted about 20 to 30 minutes. He restated he would call my daughter and ask her to call me to see how I'm doing . I told him " thanks, I appreciate it and say Hi to my daughter for me. " So all in all the elder was basically cordial and when he said he'd like to come back , I said, " O.K. ". But he'll get a BIG surprise if he comes back with ANOTHER elder - because I only invited HIM ALONE back. I know the drill of why he would bring another elder- to get two eyewitnesses to what I'd say. So- IF that eventuality happens- I will control the situation and ask that the other elder waits in his car if the initial elder wants to talk. OR - I'd tell them " Well, we can talk about the weather, wall street, baseball, camping, hobbies, etc. but NOT JW topics unless there is only ONE of you here. "

    So- It will be interesting to see what happens. Even though this elder SEEMS nice- I know they are all trained inside to be organization men. I told him that I'm an " individualist " . He said, " I can SEE that. " So- Who knows ? maybe my daughter will call me if instructed by an elder to do so since they recognize their authority. What a crazy cult this is. I sent my daughter pictures today of my parents, her inactive brother & inactive cousin visiting her JW grandparents in December today hoping it will help her see that SOME JW members of our family associate with her brother , me and my wife. Stay tuned - this should get interesting. As always I welcome your comments, thoughts, suggestions and input. Peace out to all of you, Mr. Flipper

  • Kudra
    Kudra

    It would be SO crazy if your daughter contacted you because some random dude (who happens to be an elder...) TOLD her to. Like, not because, oh, maybe she would think it would be a good idea to demonstrate natural affection to her father... IN. SANE.

    You did awesome. Hopefully the pretty damning things you said (that totally indicate you have "apostate" leanings...) won't open up a shit-storm for you... like ending up starting a disfellowshipping process. That would suck for family relations.

    But it is pretty cool to hear that the elder seemed receptive to your points. Nice. I hope that he comes back alone for a longer conversation with you- keep us posted, slugger.

    K

  • FlyingHighNow
    FlyingHighNow
    Well, we can talk about the weather, wall street, baseball, camping, hobbies, etc. but NOT JW topics unless there is only ONE of you here. "

    Why let them know you're on to them? Waste their time by just veering the conversation to the weather, wall street, baseball, camping, hobbies, etc. That could be fun, seeing the bewildered looks on their faces when they get up to leave. They came for evidence and left with fluff, wondering if you did that on purpose, but not really sure of anything.

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    You did great Flipp, I hope you and your daughters can rebuild your relationships, the day you post that

    I believe I'll cry a river. He knew you were tellin' the truth about education, him sayin' that it wasn't true

    was just a knee jerk reaction, I got a feelin' that he didn't sleep to good that night, He realize now that he

    stayed to long , what's been heard, can't be unheard, unless he try hard as hell to forget. The things you

    said will play over and over in his head like a bad jam ( Record )

    That's a great idea FHN

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    Very interesting, can hardly wait to see if your daughter actually calls you, by the way did you mention that your other daughter shuns you as well?

    But then it wouldn't be a heartfelt call if she contacts you just because somebody from Dubdumb told her to, but, at least it will be a start!

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    Hi there Shirley,

    In this situation I would take what I could get from my daughter, at least it will be an opening

    that could grow into something more, I'm with you that it's a start , that's all flipp need and

    hopefully he can take it home from there. It may take awhile, but that start is what he needs

  • ShirleyW
    ShirleyW

    Exactly Wasblind !

    I hope the elder mentions to his daughter the stuff that Flipper mentioned about how she shuns him, and the elder tells her that it's not right for her to do that!

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    OH yes Shirley, I hope he keeps his word on that too, lets hope for the best

  • RayPublisher
    RayPublisher

    Be careful Brother Flipper that definitely got his radar up I'm sure. Well played though. My DFed brother won't answer any of my emails/letters and I'm still IN it's crazy. But he's got a lot of anger. We love our family but all we can do is try our best and hope they wake up.

  • betterdaze
    betterdaze

    Well done, Flipper!

    Hope you hear from your daughter soon. They may have her mind, yet she never lost your heart. She knows your loving perseverance all along, and it seems she took the initiative for once. Through another elder, of course, but that's the ridiculous legal procedure. You handled it swimmingly.

    How tragic that adult children should rely on the "direction of men" to associate, even speak to, their own flesh-and-blood parent? As if they need special permission from some outside source to do what's healthy and natural?

    So, now this guy knows you don't have an altar to Satan in your home (or if you do, it's not in the front parlor). Just some issues that he himself can relate to, IF he's being honest. You're far too clever to let them game you on their terms, and you know how to handle the two witness trap.

    This is all looking like a good breakthrough. Best wishes to you and your family.

    ~Sue

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