by Quentin 189 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So I don't believe god talks to us. If a sincere girl who's desperately trying to do the right thing can't get an answer, what else is there?
Isn't using your brain and logic a good thing? All this woowoo and touch feely stuff is just so childish to me. Just being honest folks.
After I left, I accompanied my ex-Mormon husband to his son's missionary send-off meeting in Provo. In that large room filled with well over 100 people, watching a film about their missionary service and brotherhood, I got that same excited feeling! So if what I experienced as a JW, was the HS on God's chosen JWs, why was I feeling the same thing "in Christendom"?
its funny but a lot of your posts seems like i was writing them. I went to a few Islamic events that were organized through my college and it was incredible the similarities to what I saw and felt as a kid growing up as a JW. The same feelings of veiled superieriority emanating from everyone. The same sexism done lovingly in the auspices of the protection and respect of women. Same exact analogies about why God must exist, and why he must care for us. Same rustling of uneasiness when the speaker before lunch was approaching (and then exceeding) his alotted minutes. Same "proof" of their view of God and the Qu'ran based on scientific evidences that couldn't have been known at the same (but that same book is quickly said to 'not be a scientific textbook' the moment you start to press. The same unquestioned belief in everything being said. It was amazing!
The more people of more religiions I talked to, its amazing how all devout people are exactly the same in so many ways (just change the beliefs a bit). Everyone is 100% sure they are right and they all use the same feelings, proofs and rationalizations to justify their inerrent belief.
The more people of more religiions I talked to, its amazing how all devout people are exactly the same in so many ways (just change the beliefs a bit).
Had the same experiences FollowedMyHeart and simon17. While I was still a JW I worked with a devout Pentecostal. Started to wonder how the heck I was any different than him. Both KNEW we had the right understanding of God. That got me thinking.
Christians believe they know God because they "feel" Him and the love of Christ. That's HOW they KNOW. Muslims believe they know God (Allah) because they "feel" Him and the love of Muhammed. That's HOW they KNOW. Both can't be right...there is either one true god or not. Or...both are experiencing are the same human flaws.
@ whereami: Isn't using your brain and logic a good thing?
Yes, That's why I'm doing that now. I only said "what else is there?" because I didn't know how else to end it.
@ simon17: its amazing how all devout people are exactly the same in so many ways (just change the beliefs a bit). Everyone is 100% sure they are right and they all use the same feelings, proofs and rationalizations to justify their inerrant belief.
It is pretty amazing. I just finished reading The "God" Part of the Brain by Matthew Alper. It was very interesting and I learned a lot! He has an explanation for why spiritual/religious beliefs/experiences are so similar throughout the world.
God speaks to me through my children and especially my grandchildren. Sooner's little boy and my daughter's 2 little girls. Also when I'm depressed or worried about something and I turn on my radio and hear just the right song. Yeah God speaks to me but in a different way than I used to believe.
When Christians say God "speaks" to us, we do not mean we literally hear his voice. God speaks thru his Holy Spirit which is his influencing power on our lives, hearts and minds. Because God speaks not only to our hearts, but to our minds too, I disagree with the poster who said ANY experience of God speaking to someone is simply an emotional response.
Yes sometimes God does speak to me when I am in an emotional state but mostly he speaks when I am not in such a state.
As far as a person needing faith for God to speak to them, well this is a biblical view.
Hebrews 11:6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.
James 1:6 But when you ask, you mustbelieve and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind.
Interesting comments made by all, thanks for taking part.... Hope there will be others who take the time to comment...
Seems to me the word "speak" should not be used if a voice is not heard. What is being described here by many are nothing more than feelings.
Can believers please help us understand this then:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQnI4eoSvwo&feature=player_embedded
I posted this video in another thread and asked for comments from both sides. Please take note towards the end of the video where a higher up in the Vatican is being interviewd and asked on this particular subject.
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/208358/1/God-Heals-Amputees-FINALLY-THE-EVIDENCE
Peace to you, dear Quentin! I would like to respond, as well as respond to dear WAI's (peace to you, as well!), if you will permit me. I will try and be as short and brief as I can, but no promises. I realize that some are going to take issue with what I am going to share, even experience anger and ire. I would ask, however, that such ones simply take my comments as I present them: as an honest and genuine response to the OP's initial request for comment. I don't want to fight or debate or argue or contend, but only to share what I know on the matter, what occurs with me, why... and how. All are free to hear or refrain, take it... or leave it. I will consider personal attacks immature and childish, however, and the result of the commenter not being able to actually discuss the matter or provide an adequate alternative. I am not going to mince my words, so please bear with me. Thank you!
Does God speak to you? HOW?
While I also sometimes experience what others here have shared (i.e., seeing God "in/through" someone/something else), I also experience something else, as well: a literal voice, or voices. The Most Holy One of Israel, JaHVeH ("JAH of Armies") speaks to me, primarily, through His Son, the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JaHeShua, the MischaJah (chosen of JAH). On rare (6) occasions, He has spoken to me, directly. Each of those times has been to either introduce... or validate something said by... His Son. [They] speak to me from directly above the Ark of [MY] Covenant with them... which is a place inside the spirit person that resides in my vessel of flesh. Literally, it is situated above the "heart" (not the organ of flesh, but the center of one's motivations). I "hear" them primarily in my blood and bones... but sometimes in my muscles (sinews) or organs, too... sometimes in my entire being... which voices I can also hear outside of my physical body.
The BEST way to explain it is that my hearing is like that of a dog or bat: it is an actual frequency but NOT discernable by the physical ears alone... that penetrates into the very DNA of us. I am able to access that frequency through my blood because it also now has God's blood... holy spirit... in it. And so the two "speak".
Does it make me a bit of a freak? I guess, by the world's standards, yes, it does. But that doesn't really concern me. I cannot deny what occurs with me, even if I wanted to. It would be a lie. Like confessing to a crime you did NOT commit. Some can do that - I could not. I mean, I get it that not everyone hears... but I KNOW that everyone CAN (that's what my Lord tells me, at least); everyone has the CAPACITY... in their own DNA. They just don't know how to access the frequency. Unfortunately, when you tell them how... they scoff, guffaw and ridicule. So, what can you do? You can only put it out there; you can't make a horse drink.
please help us understand this
By "this", I'm assuming you mean why we don't hear of the "miracles" that those who supposedly belong to God are supposed to be able to do, dear one? The answer really is VERY simple; however, it's not very satisfying and so most reject it (i.e., scoff, guffaw, ridicule). True miracles (the kind you're thinking of)... are the result of the gift of holy spirit and are not for the entertainment... or curing... of the world, per se. The world has its gods, whether they be deities or objects. The gifts of the Spirit, however, are for one thing and one thing ONLY: building up the Body of Christ (i.e., adding to the "temple" that "Israel" is). Such gifts are granted by God to the TRUE Faithful... and DISCREET... Slave... Christ... who, in turn, grants them to HIS "belongings"... in order to upbuild the faith of those who belong to him but have not yet learned to walk by faith (vs. by sight). In that light, they are not numerous and because they aren't numerous they are not readily received by "the world."
For instance, the medical industry is MOST reluctant to attribute an unexplained healing to God, Christ, or faith. They will attribute it to ANYTHING else... including "we don't know"... but not to God, Christ, or faith. Their... ummmmm... own paradigms won't allow for it. So, you won't hear of those because, well who's going to tell of them? The one who worked the miracle? The one who benefitted from it? But who will believe them without someone "acceptable" to corroborate? And so, the Body has learned to merely give glory, praise, and thanks to God... and let the world believe what it wishes to believe: often, that it was simply some unexplainable phenomena.
What about those who posses such gifts - why don't they declare it aloud and use it/them to heal the world? Because they respect the gifts they have... and the criteria for using them. Meaning, they realize that the gifts are for the Body... and it is the leaves of the Tree (of Life)... which is the flesh of Christ... that is for the "curing" of the nations. And so, instead of attempting to cure the nations, they direct the nations to the One whose "authority" and privilege it is to do so. Through HIM, then, such ones can also receive such gifts OR the benefits of them.
We hear of miracles all the time, dear one. Unfortunately, man rarely want to give credit for such miracles to the Most Holy One of Israel. We believe ourselves to equal, if not better, than He... and His holy spirit... and so if it cannot be attributed to the accomplishments of earthling man, then we simply state that it has no explanation, is unexplanable, is weird, a conundrum, phenomena, whathaveyou... but certainly has nothing to do with God.
Can you imagine what would occur if you openly professed that you or a loved one had indeed experienced a miracle... in a KH? Do you really think folks would gather round to rejoice with you? If they did it would be very short-lived: the elders would be on you within seconds, warning you of consorting with "demons." You would be told to be silent or risk expulsion. No matter that the cancer is in remission. No matter that the paralysis is gone. No matter that you've awoke from a coma. No matter that something has occurred to cause you and your loved ones to rejoice. No, you'd better keep it quiet or say the doctors "discovered" something, etc. Otherwise, you're worse than an adulterer or murderer, etc. You're... an apostate... and must go. There's be NO "tainting" others with your "good news"!
Given the world's "reception" of miracles... why in the WORLD would the Body of Christ put itself out there like that? We wouldn't, dear one. We know better. So, we simply rejoice... and give praise, honor, glory, and thanks to God... in private, among ourselves. And, yes, I have seen (or received credible testimony about) every one of the gifts of the spirit, including healing, at work.
I hope this helps and, again, may you all have peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
