The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY. (page 9)

Georges.

Do not confuse divinity of Christ and Trinity .
Jesus Christ is divine but not equal to his Father , so no Trinity .

George

Anyone who believes the Trinity is simple and obvious is totally delusional. Read the Athenasian Creed for the definition of Trinity. If you don't believe that, then you don't believe the Trinity and you're just making up your own doctrine as you go (which is pretty much what most Trinitarians do, because the doctrine is ridiculous and insane).

I agree with you about the trinity. It all stems from Catholic nonsense from what I can see. It is just a weapon to label christians as being non christians because they don't hold their beliefs.

Just the same as watchtower teachings. Religion uses the trinity belief to control and condem.

Why do people have to make Jesus equal to God? Jesus never claimed to be.

still thinking

Terry I would question the Bible canon too. Personally I think it is wise to read other books not included and make my own mind up rather than having a church decide for me what is and isn't biblical.

Lets face it, not all bibles use exactly the same Canon. Even the Catholic church has changed their minds on what should and shouldn't be there.

tec

John 13:34

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. All men will know that you are my disciples if you love one another."

Seems to be a better test for a 'true' disciple of Christ than adherence (or not) to a doctrine.

Tammy

godrulz

Muslims/Mormons love each other, but that does not make them true. Love is the hallmark of a true Christian, but can be found even among an atheist group. Truth is more doctrinal, who God is, what He has done, etc.

The divinity of Christ that makes him subordinate and created is not what is meant by Deity of Christ theologically and biblically. Christ did claim to be equal with the Father. He was a Jew speaking to Jews. They understood His claim (John adds inspired commentary for us non-Jewish types) and went to stone Him for blasphemy. The Jews understood exactly what He was saying, but rejected it. JWs fail to understand His claim and would also reject it if they did (Jn. 5:18; Jn. 10:30-33; Jn. 1:1; Jn. 8:58; Jn. 20:28). New Agers could claim that Christ is divine, but not Deity. Divine would mean two true gods, yet there is only one true God and many false gods. We partake of His divine nature without being Deity (ontologically distinct). Jesus is not just a generic divine being/man, but God Himself incarnate. The Trinity is glorious truth, not just Catholic, not something to control people (huh?!).

still thinking

Michael Servetus (also Miguel Servet or Miguel Serveto; 29 September 1511 – 27 October 1553) was a Spanish theologian, physician, cartographer, and humanist. He was the first European to describe the function of pulmonary circulation. His interests included many sciences: mathematics, astronomy and meteorology, geography, human anatomy, medicine and pharmacology, as well as jurisprudence, and the scholarly study of the Bible in its original languages. He is renowned in the history of several of these fields, particularly medicine and theology. He participated in the Protestant Reformation, and later developed a nontrinitarianChristology. Condemned by Catholics and Protestants alike, he was arrested in Geneva and burnt at the stake as a heretic by order of the Protestant Geneva governing council.

No godrulz, of course as you can see above, they don't control people. Do they?

tec

Muslims/Mormons love each other, but that does not make them true. Love is the hallmark of a true Christian, but can be found even among an atheist group. Truth is more doctrinal, who God is, what He has done, etc.

Yes, love certainly can be found among atheists, muslims, hindus, buddhists. But if you claim to follow Christ, and yet have no love...? Many trinitarians think that it is adherence to the trinity that makes a true christian... or at least, denial of it means you cannot be true, no matter that you might follow all that Christ taught and commands.

Terrible things have been done by trinitarians. If anti-trinitarians had been in power, perhaps the same terrible things would have been committed by them as well. This is why it is our fruits, I believe, that tell more about us than our adherence to a creed... or not. Though we do not have the right to judge, it must be beneficial to at least examine ourselves. Are we following Christ first and foremost? Or creeds and doctrines first and foremost?

Tammy

designs

Tec-

When you have someone you look up to as a Leader and that Leader has ideas and teachings which decribe the world of humanity as either his followers or the condemned, and when such Leader also describes his Return as an Event to destroy the condemned you have all of the dynamics and rationale for the Followers to do terrible things in the name of said Leader.

tec

Designs, the 'condemned' that you speak of are the goats who are outside the kingdom gnashing their teeth, weeping in the darkness. What do you think gnashing teeth represents? Jealousy, resentment? They are obviously not destroyed at Christ's return. He does not grant them access to the Kingdom, because of the hate or ugliness or lack of mercy/love inside them. Would anyone condemn Him for protecting those who belong to Him?

As for the rest of what you said... some 'followers' do terrible things because that is what they have within them. But they are not listening to Him who forgave, who told them not to judge, who told them to turn the other cheek or give to the one that asks of you. They are following their own desires. That isn't a judgment against them, because they could also be misled by other men who are following their own desires, and who convince the people to follow 'them' instead of Christ - that their desires are His as well, and never mind all the words that Christ spoke against what they do. But it also cannot be said that someone is listening to Christ if they go against what Christ taught, commanded, and did.

Tammy

PSacramento

What people do in the name of God or Christ has nothing to do with God or Christ, it has everything to do with people.

Jesus never claimed equality with God? of course not, but certainly Paul and the Jews viewed his claims that way, why?

Where they simply confused? Nope, they understood that thr equality he was claminng was NOT authoritive but being the same nature as God.

Since NO WHERE in the NT will you find ANYONE stating that belief in the Trinity is a basis for salvation, people shoudl drop discussing it.

Let those that believe, believe and those that don't, don't.

Our Salvation is based on Christ, His grace, His sacrifice for Us, NOT on human doctrine.

Just drop it, especially those that don't even know what it is.

Just

Drop

It.

The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.

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