The trouble with Christianity. TRINITY.

by whereami 209 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  still thinking

  Wontleave I must say I enjoyed your reasoning. I hadn't thought of it that way. God taking a bit of himself to initiate the existence of Jesus .

  I thought that If he could create earth and people he could create anything and he would not ncecissarily have to take it from himself. Otherwise you would have to reason that everything had to be taken from himself including the dust that people were created from.

  Everything else you said I agree with, initiating Jesus is a new idea for me so I am going to mull over. Thanks

  PS: are you a modalist/oneness then? Arian, modalist, trinitarian are the main options

  godrulz I really don't like labels like these. Why do people feel that they need to label everything and everyone.

  If we remove the labels then what we have left are a bunch of likeminded people who love God and Jesus who want do understand him better and are all striving to do this in their own way. When people label themselves like this it opens them up to criticism because it is assumed that this is "who they are" which is ridiculous since there is a lot more to anyone than one understanding of a doctrine.

  The Trinity is a doctrine, not a label for anyone.
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  The Oracle

  The Trinity doctrine seems a bit too contrived to me.

  I purposely avoided using the word confusing, because I do "get" the concept. However it does seem contrived.

  Is that a hangover from my JW background?

  The Oracle
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  myelaine

  dear Tammy...

  you said: "Same nature. Not the same being."(said of the Son)...

  would you say the same about the Holy Spirit? (the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son.john 14:26)

  love michelle
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  tec

  Michelle...

  Not sure yet. As a third distinct being of the same nature, no I don't think so. I do consider that the Holy Spirit (as counsellor) is Christ in spirit, which is why He had to die in the flesh before the 'counsellor' could be sent. My mother had always thought this. While I was deep in JW teaching, I told her this was wrong, and that the holy spirit was the impersonal active force of God. But my mother is actually quite a smart lady who too often is not given enough credit for her intelligence.

  I am still pondering it and praying about the nature of the Holy Spirit, myself. Trying to fit my belief into someone else's definition stands in my way, so that I am less open to receiving understanding. Same thing happened when I was trying to understand the nature of Christ and God. I had to just let go, and listen. What I came to understand in that regard was that if I listen to the Son, I listen to the Father. If I love the Son, I love the Father. If I obey the Son, I obey the Father. If I see the Son, I see the Father.

  Peace to you,

  Tammy
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  godrulz

  We need to be more precise. Being/essence/nature/substance/ontology refers to the stuff of God (He is spirit, not matter; Jn. 4:24). Distinct beings of same nature is a contradiction and sounds too much like Mormonism's polytheism/tritheism=3 distinct beings/gods. The triune understanding is ONE being/nature/essence/substance with 3 personal distinctions (3 beings implies 3 different natures/gods)/3 conscious centers who are co-equal, co-essential, co-eternal. There is one nature/being of God (uncreated spirit) with 3 personal distinctions making up this one being (the Father is God, the Son is God, the Holy Spirit is God, yet they are distinct in another sense with the Father not being the person of the Son, the Son not the Spirit, and the Father is not the Holy Spirit. He is unique with absolute oneness and absolute distinction, yet indivisible. 3 beings in one being, 3 gods in 1 god, 3 persons in 1 person are contradictions; one God/being with 3 personal distinctions is not (since they are one in one way and distinct in another way).

  This understanding is the only and best summary of the evidence/parameters, not contrived, but true.

  Labels help summarize a belief system. It is label to say Judaism, Christianity, Islam are monotheistic religions. So? It is a true descriptive label that communicates that they are not polytheistic religions like Mormonism or Hinduism.

  Just because JWs are doctrinally wrong is not a reason to avoid precise, biblical, theological doctrine. Paul, under the inspiration of the Spirit emphasized sound doctrine (orthodoxy) and sound practice (orthopraxy). Jesus also was specific about doctrine of resurrection (siding with Pharisees vs Sadducees, etc.).
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  still thinking

  Godrulz Personally I am not concerned where anyone thinks my ideas are from. I am trying to base them on the bible. I choose not to limit myself to any one belief system anymore. Look where that has got me so far.

  So if you want to label them as being slightly christian with mormon tendancies and a bit of arianism/judaism/chistianity/hinduism/jwism or whatever you like thrown in, that is your perogative. It does not make your judgement true of me. It is simply your opinion.

  These labels mean NOTHING to me, other than some people choose to be labeled by them. Again, that is their perogative.

  Sound doctrine does not mean that any one religion or theory is 100% correct. It just means that it must make sense. For me and a lot of people the trinity doctrine does not make sense, so I suppose you could say I don't think it is sound doctrine. So maybe I am following Pauls advice.
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  tec

  These labels mean NOTHING to me, other than some people choose to be labeled by them. Again, that is their perogative.

  I hear this.

  Tammy
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  frankiespeakin

  Hey, count me in as against the negative side of labels, and give me less doctrine please!!! when it comes to knowing the unknowable,, i mean doctrine just takes a way from God's divinity and makes him look as small as the minds that formed a doctrine about God's nature and really thought they knew what they are talking about.

  The day you can put in words and discribe God's true nature is the day you talk with the tongues of an angel because you can't put into words what spirit is maybe only experience it but not discribe it.
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  still thinking

  Here's a label that applies to me, but I don't want that attached either.....hee hee

  
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  myelaine

  dear godrulz...

  I agree that the word "being" would mean the same as nature...we are all human beings and have the same nature...we are not all the same person...:)

  love michelle