Larsinger58 - So if I'm understanding you correctly, you believe that the JW doctrine of literal Jews no longer being a chosen people, but that the "chosen tribes" are completely symbolic and include all people, is false, right? That is very thought-provoking. It would make sense when one considers the promises that God gave to patriarchs like Abraham and Isaac concerning their seed. He promised them inheritances for their lines, so one could take this in a literal sense. God said nothing about cutting off the seed of Abraham. True the ancient Jews had a rocky relationship at times with God, but there was no black-and-white voiding of His original promise to Abraham, yes?
How Would you Interpret the Sign of the Last Days?
by Mr. Falcon 99 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Mr. Falcon
ballistic - I hope they leave that billboard up forever.
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Knowsnothing
As for me, I've come to look at it from a purely secular viewpoint. Doomsday as per things like Nuclear Holocaust, degradation of the environment leading into skirmishes for resources, extreme and unpresedented population growth, running out of oil, etc.
Even though it is absolutely, unquestionably true that life expectancy and standards of living have improved for many, how long can we sustain this lifestyle without collapse?
To me, that's what points to the Last Days. I see where we are going. I see us going to a point where there is no coming back. Whether you look at it through Bible prophecy, or reality makes no difference. What's coming is coming.
To me, it's whether you decide to live in fear of what will come, or learn to live with your reality, and realise that at some point your going to die anyways. Life is too short to fear regular death, or death from above.
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Pika_Chu
There's also the fact that many people (especially dubs) see their religion as the one true reality. People like Maze (and my dad, personally) will see what they want to see in the world. I always here my dad talking about how the end is so close because "you can't watch the news for 5 minutes without hearing about some tragedy in the world." ALL THE TIME, he does this (I'm ranting now, sorry). For one thing, a singular tragedy in one part of the world followed by a another singular tragedy in another part of the world does not mean the entire world is falling apart. A perfect example: Earthquakes in Australia, Japan, etc. I am not undermining the seriousness of those events, but when those things occured, it's not like it happened to the WHOLE world, all at once, and it doesn't happen CONSTANTLY. IF there's a 1 in 100 chance of someone being murdered anywhere in the world, the religious pessimist will interpret this to mean that murder is rampant. But that ignores the 99% of people who DON'T get murdered everyday. Reminds me of recent Watchtowers, actually. There's also the fact that bad news sells. So does religion. Money makes the world go 'round. End-Times religions thrive on keeping followers on edge with CONSTANT and only slightly predictable threats, by creating a scary world scene in the minds of believers, then asking said believers for donations to pay for magazines warning them about all this crap (and which also "nourish" them spiritually).
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Larsinger58
Larsinger58 - So if I'm understanding you correctly, you believe that the JW doctrine of literal Jews no longer being a chosen people, but that the "chosen tribes" are completely symbolic and include all people, is false, right? That is very thought-provoking. It would make sense when one considers the promises that God gave to patriarchs like Abraham and Isaac concerning their seed. He promised them inheritances for their lines, so one could take this in a literal sense. God said nothing about cutting off the seed of Abraham. True the ancient Jews had a rocky relationship at times with God, but there was no black-and-white voiding of His original promise to Abraham, yes?
Basically, the Christian covenant was in additon to the Abrahamic covenant. Both covenants end in 1996. They are look two staffs that become one within spiritual Israel. The natural Jews make up 10% of the kingdom, 144,000 seats. The other 90% is made up of gentiles.
As you note, the promise to restore the Jews to their homeland, particularly in celebration of the 70th jubilee did occur; the Jews have their homeland back and are a prosperous nation through Jehovah's blessing. But this comes on the heels of the "great tribulation", a unique event in world history, which was the HOLOCAUST. Obviously, if Jehovah is punishing the Jews during the Holocaust, causing two-thirds to pass through the fire, as prophesied at Zech 13:8, then clearly that covenant is still in place. Further, again, what about the promise of restoration to their homeland? That part of the promise did come true. So certainly the covenant is still in place.
A specific reference to the covenant is at Daniel 9 where it says specifically let the covenant be in place for the many until the end of the week:
27 “And he must keep [the] covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease."
The "many" here is a reference to the Jewish covenant, the "few" would be a reference to those under the Christian covenant. Since this is about the second coming it confirms the covenant week for the many, that is the Jews, would continue in force until th eend of the week. That "week" is 49 years from 1949-1996. The end of the "sacrifice and gift" in the middle of te week, in this case, is in relation to when the prodigal son leaves his father's house and becomes spiritually dead. The "fruit of the lips" is a form of sacrifice and gift and so the witnessing and preaching and Christian lifestyle of the messiah ends when he turns to a life of sexual immorality.
If you divide 49 years, 7 weeks of 7 years each into 3 + 3 + 1, then the middle 7-year period would fall from 1968-1975. That is:
3 x 7 = 21
21 + 1947 = 1968
1968 + 7= 1975
This represents my ages of 18-25. Around 18 I became sexually active, ended up getting disfellowshipped later on, even became a male prostitute for a while when I was 22-23, but by 1975 I was back in the truth. I know because I went to the assembly in 1975 and heard that talk about how thy were not expecting there to be another assembly next year because they were expecting Armageddon, etc.
So the end of sacrifice and gift in terms of the messiah's spritual death did occur in relation to when the prodigal son becomes spiritually dead in the middle of the week. But our primary point here is that the covenant with the Jews was still in force until 1996. Their 70th jubilee from the time of Moses was from 1947-1996.
But can you see what is happening? Once you focus on all the prophecies about the 2nd coming and the messiah, it becomes clear the Bible absolutely supports a physical second coming and in 1992. Once you finally see that's the case then you will ask whether the true Christ arrived in 1992 or not and I'm here to answer the personal questions that fulfill the details of prophecy, such as was I really a male prostitute at one time. I have proof because I got arrested for it. Or the prophecy that he would appear like an "Ethiopian eunuch", meaning an effeminate (gay) black male. Of course, that's the case as well.
The messiah, Lazarus, can be identified because he torments the GB (the rich man) with his teachings, which are like a sharp, double-edged sword with which he strikes the nations. That means I should have some advanced truth that exposes some old lies. Well I do. The academic world is still lying about the true timeline for the NB Period, I expose that and establish the true, original timeline, using both the Bible and ancient astronomy texts like the VAT4956 and the SK400. It is not a mistake they were created and preserved to confirm this. Plus the cmpetition between me and the WTS as far as what the Bible truly teaches is a slam-dunk win for me. And these are easy false teachings most anyone can follow, like the day of the week of Jesus' death not being a Friday but a Thursday. It's just a matter of looking closely at all the scriptures and figuring it out.
So all is being fulfilled, but you have to look at what the scriptures say first to know if what is said is being fulfilled.
It is and it is through me. "I'm coming out" to confirm who I am now with the scriptures to support that. Eventually, you'll see that I match the promised messiah of 1992, whether you accept me or not. But if you don't accept me, you'd best be looking for the other ex-male prostitute black messiah, because only someone fitting that description is the true messiah of the Bible.
LS
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d
War and famine have always occured it is nothing new.
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Larsinger58
d said: War and famine have always occured it is nothing new.
Yes, and the Bible says that clearly. But what would be different would be a world war followed by the other signs, including a great tribulation specifically involving the Jews, which was the Holocaust. A world war, thus begins the "last generation." If we presume from Ps. 90:10 that a generation is a reference to a normal lifetime and thus would be no more than 80 years, then all the signs, including the final second coming event, which was the final event, should occur between 1914-1994.
Notice the things that are the beginning of the pangs of distress:
Matthew 24:
4 " And in answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads YOU ; 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 Y OU are going to hear of wars and reports of wars; see that YOU are not terrified. For these things must take place, but the end is not yet. "
7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, and there will be food shortages and earthquakes in one place after another. 8 All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress."
As is noted, wars and reports of wars was not to alarm us, but when you hear about a world war, that is nation vs nation and kingdom vs kingdom, then that begins a time of distress. Now I'm sure someone will claim there was a technical world war before "World War I," but the title itself makes the point.
This is the only basis for including 1914 as part of Bible prophecy, because it was the year of a world war. 1914 is not the end of "7 times," or 2520 years from the fall of Jerusalem because Jerusalem did not fall in 607 BCE, but in 529 BCE. It is also clearly not the end of the gentile times. The Jews were still in exile and without a homeland in 1914. Their official end of exile and the date they could claim to have their own country again was on November 30, 1947. That is the true end of the gentile times or the "appointed times of the nations." It was this "end of the system of things" of gentile rule over their homeland that the Jews were talking about when they said the "end of the system of things." So the prophecy about the "good news" being preached worldwide has to be fulfilled by 1947. So the question is, from the early times when the Bible students was just one small study group that grew into a major religion, sect or cult, was it international by 1947? The answer, of course, is yes. More specifically, earlier that very year, then president of the WTS, N.H. Knorr embarked on a worldwide speaking tour. So the "good news" was literally preached aroud the globe early in 1947, and then the "end" came.
That's why Harold Camping's prediction regarding May 21, 2011 has to still be taken seriously as inspired by holy spirit because it is clear even with the witnesses that every detail is often not revealed in connection with fulfillment. But it gets the job done.
I think of it as having to climb a mountain and being our own worst enemy as far as focus and endurance. So if you had to climb a steep, steep hill, and your aged a bit you might tire out and decide its not worth it, say for a medal to be the first 80-year old to climb to the top of this hill in a certain amount of time. You might start out, then give out. But if along with that trophy they were going to give away $25, you still might give out and not think it was worth it when the going go rough. But what if the prize was $$ two million!! What if you had bills or family members in distress that could use some of that money? In that case, you would not give up. You would dig deep and find within yourselves, as we all do, that extra strength we did not know we had.
I don't want to put too fine of a point on it, but looking forward to a rapture up to heaven is a strong motivation vs simply needing to announce to the world that "judgment day" had begun invisibly. :> There needed to be a motivated worldwide announcement of coming judgment and that's what occurred. No "rapture" though, but that was always known in advance that that aspect of this date would not be fulfilled. But we can't say the day of "judgment" has not begun; that is, the symbolic day the door to Noah's ark was closed by Jehovah, seven days before the actual destruction. This is clearly understood by Camping who understanding there is no more opportunity for salvaton, has decided to just play Christian music on his stations without the preaching. In my understanding of how Jehovah's plan unfolds, that is just about right.
LS
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d
When giving was talking about the signs. He was referring to his own time period.The world is not anymore or less violent then it was a 100 or a thousand years ago. The problem is that tv and internet have lead to 24 hr news cycle of death and destruction.
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The Finger
"There is one sign today that is of the highest importance to every person on earth. For us to see it, to understand it correctly and to act in accord with it promptly will spell the difference between life and death for each of us. What is this sign?"
"Christ Jesus referred to this sign when he said: "Then the sign of the Son of man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."
"It is the act of God's Son in recieving authority from his Sovereign Father to rule in an everlasting kingdom. This event brought the establishment or "birth" of his kingly rule"
"Bible prophecies and the facts ... show this event to have taken place in the year 1914 C.E."
"Inasmuch as "the sign of the Son of man" took place in the heavenly courts, it is only with 'eyes of the heart of appreciation ' that "every eye will see" this installed king, Christ Jesus"
Watchtower January 15 1966.
Notice the importance of understanding this sign correctly, the difference between life and death.
"There is one sign today that is of the highest importance to every person on earth. For us to see it, to understand it correctly and to act in accord with it promptly will spell the difference between life and death for each of us.
Notice that it has already been seen.
"Bible prophecies and the facts ... show this event to have taken place in the year 1914 C.E."
"Matthew 24:30 points forward to a further "sign" appearing in the future, that of "the Son of man"
"We can look forward to the start of the great tribulation, then the sign of the Son of man,"
Watchtower February 15 1994
For all those years it was not understood and taught correctly.
It was a matter of life and death.
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d
The end is figurative not literal