How Would you Interpret the Sign of the Last Days?

by Mr. Falcon 99 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Mr. Falcon

  Bad things have been happening for melleniums and the will continue to happen for melleniums.

  SIAM, I think this is a very realistic viewpoint. I'm not sure how everyone here views evolution, so I don't mean to offend anyone, but I believe that homo sapiens are subject to the same kind of conditions that influence natural selection just as any other organism. Couldn't one argue that we "evolve" in a intellectual and engineering way? Due to sanitary plumbing and building technology, humans can now populate areas that were uninhabitable centuries ago (although natural disasters still do their damage). Evolution teaches how many species adapted over time to inhabit certian unique ecosystems and climates. As I mentioned before, things are bad today. But it's not like the world was this magical, happy-go-lucky place prior to 1914.
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  It reminds me of a talk an elder gave after 9/11 where he said "It used to be, here today, gone tommorow....now it's, here today, gone today" to the sound of MMMMMMMHMMMMMMMMM's all over the kingdom hall.

  Dune, that kind of rhetoric is the of the same principle as when media sensationilizes something, or even when racism is "justified". For example, there were preachers in the South during slavery who actually twisted the Scriptures to justify slavery. And the people sitting in the audience may have been truly decent and God-fearing people. But they would hear a preacher tell them this and you could just picture them sitting there going "MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMhhhhhhMMMMM" and nodding their heads. Just because you come up with a clever or witty little saying or are an eloquent speaker does not make what comes out of your mouth correct!
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  The Bible has been used as a medium to set up kingdoms for human gods. That's what happens when the "signs of the last days" are treated as a fundamental tenent of a religion; I have learned this from listening to, and living within, history. Maybe the Bible's wisdom has been squandered, but in the end all of us have the power of applying love in our lives.

  Excellently said, Sab. "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it." (Santayana) Do as much positive as you can with the life you are given, ease the suffering of others as much as you can, and be judged by those standards.
• 

  PSacramento

  There are NO signs of the Last Days, Christ makes it clear when he says:

  It will come like a theif in the night

  No one knows but Our Father.

  It is NOT up to man to know or try to guess the time of things set by God.
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  unshackled, I've had that happen to me as well. JWs speaking about things like viruses, earthquakes, biology, etc. as if they know anything about geology or biology. Most of them have never even cracked a history book open. Honestly, say me and unshackled were out on field service. We come across an elderly Jewish woman and proceed to tell her how things are worse now than ever before and man has never had it so bad. Well, it turns out that the elderly lady is a survivor of the Berkenwald camp. And here I am, a young person trying to tell a older person who endured unspeakable evil that now is the time of real suffering. Marinate on that.
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  Snoozy - Wow. Well, religion can be creative. I'll give it that much.
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  There are NO signs of the Last Days, Christ makes it clear when he says:

  It will come like a theif in the night

  No one knows but Our Father.

  It is NOT up to man to know or try to guess the time of things set by God.

  PSacramento (and anyone else who wants to chime in) - In light of this discussion, what do you make of 2 Peter 3: 3, 4?

  3 Above all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4 They will say, “Where is this ‘coming’ he promised? Ever since our ancestors died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation.”
• 

  PSacramento

  Mr.Falcon,

  What Peter said was typical since it was quite common to say that we are already living in the last days, which you will find in various places through the NT.

  Peter doesn't imply that it is a sign or that any sign will be given or should be looked for.

  You will also find more than a few warnings about those that do "prophesies" about the last days or say that Christ has already come.

  The Promise of the Lord’s Coming

  (Gen 6:5–8:22)

  3 This is now, beloved, the second letter I am writing to you; in them I am trying to arouse your sincere intention by reminding you 2 that you should remember the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets, and the commandment of the Lord and Savior spoken through your apostles. 3 First of all you must understand this, that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and indulging their own lusts 4 and saying, “Where is the promise of his coming? For ever since our ancestors died, a all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation!” 5 They deliberately ignore this fact, that by the word of God heavens existed long ago and an earth was formed out of water and by means of water, 6 through which the world of that time was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the present heavens and earth have been reserved for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the godless.

  8 But do not ignore this one fact, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like one day. 9 The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, b not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and everything that is done on it will be disclosed. c

  11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought you to be in leading lives of holiness and godliness, 12 waiting for and hastening d the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set ablaze and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire? 13 But, in accordance with his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness is at home.
• 

  dgp

  While I agree with Falcon in what he says about this perhaps not being the worst of times, I think that this whole idea of looking at the world and noticing that the signs are not there means you're already half into the trap. If you think of it this way, you're not denying their basic belief, namely that at some point the Lord will return and will destroy the world in a cataclysmic horror. You're only saying "not now".

  Allow me to move a bit in the direction of the religious. If you think this way, you're also missing the point that every now and then a different fool - or bastard- claims he has found "the secret code" hidden in the Bible, which, of course, he is the only one to interpret correctly.

  There is no question that much is bad in the world these days, but I don't think those are proof of anything but mankind's terrible collective stupidity. As in poisoning the waters, nuclear reactors, et cetera. Those are real threats, and they are not the result of a God who will inflict such pain on his creatures.
• 

  Mr. Falcon

  PSacramento,

  Thank you for that explanation. That is a very insightful point you make. I guess you can also view as a warning to the Christians living during the impending destruction of actual Jerusalem. Since it's pretty accepted that Peter died around 67 CE, would this be reasonable to conclude that his message at 2 Peter chapter 3 was directed to his living contemporaries and not some distant Apocaplypse 2000 years later?