Can the Bible be proved wrong?

by The Quiet One 158 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Joey Jo-Jo

  The question of if god really existed bugged me for some time, the god the OT NT quran etc. I think the key is to study human nature, we are very shallow short sited and self destructive people but we are filled with intellegent design, I think the first human race asked these same questions and started making stories up that later turned fact, a man smarter than the average(but still very stupid) sold religion to inslave his tribe... and so did other tribes with their gods.

  You read into ancient history, all the conquering, religion wars and civil wars all have this ingredient that is religion, religion is what made us become nations and nationalists but we all are alike, we all deserve the same but there is hierarchy, people die of disease and hunger will other grow fat.

  The irony that I see here is we are saying exactly what other people did far far back and then created something of nothing..a concept.

  If you want an answer study yourself, study human nature, study ancient history and its relation to religion like Greece Spain etc. Maybe some day everyone will put down their guns qurans and bibles and face the real issues that are plaguing us.
• 

  wobble

  I think you make a good point, J J J, nationalistic ,overly patriotic, and divisive attitudes are often linked to the "tribal" religion.

  That is why non-believing Humanists like myself work hard to diminish the power that religion weilds. where such power is the power to do harm.

  Here in the U.K , where the Church is part of Government, and Faith Schools are mainly state funded, religion has a disproprtionate voice in a nation that 51% of its subjects say they are not religious.

  The Bible has been proved wrong, because it has not moved its readers to, as you say "face the real issues", and deal with them in a humanitarian way.,
• 

  tec

  I wonder how many Christians there would be and whether they could agree on what God’s message is?

  They don't agree on what God's message is WITH the bible.

  You both often quote from biblical characters such as Moses, Paul, John and Jesus. As nothing that is said about them can be taken as Gospel their recorded words can not be relied upon. We could question whether they ever existed.

  Lots of books out there aren't holy, but we believe what is written based on testimony of people who were there. Sometimes that testimony is backed up by archaeological finds, or things written in other books that can corroborate, such as the many different accounts in the NT - never mind what isn't in there at all.

  Sometimes we know no more about some other historical figure or place or war or leader than we know about Christ. Not being 'holy' doesn't render someone's testimony invalid, does it?

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  PSacramento

  Thanks for trying to answer my questions honestly as you always do PSacramento. Unfortunately the main question still remains unanswered.

  Why were these sincere people not given the benefit of direct conversation with Jesus, that some on this board claim to have, and informed that the Bible is not Holy?

  I can't answer that for you, sorry.

  I don't know other than to state that I believe Christ communcates with Us all, and speaking from personal experience I know that I ignored Him for a better part of my life, I am honest about that to myself and others.

  Perhaps those that claim to hear from god can ask and reply. Millions of people are waiting for the answer. Meanwhile they look to the Holy Bible for answers.

  And the bible is a great place to START.

  Like I have said a few times and borrowing from the late Bruce Lee's philosophy:

  The bible is like a finger, pointing the way to God, don't concentrate on the finger or you miss all the heavenly glory.
• 

  trevor

  Tammy and PSacramento, I appreciate you both taking the time to reply. I read your answers with interest and do my best to see things from your perspective. I do see how your reasoning works and admire your sincerity and honesty.

  Personally, I find that some eastern approaches spiritual matters make more sense to me. I have not entirely dismissed the possibility that other dimensions exist, that we have yet to fully understand. But then, excluding the Bible, I would have to ask myself what basis there is for me to accept that there is a being called Jesus, to whom we are indebted.
• 

  AGuest

  And bolding whenever Socrates used the word god doesn't mean he was talking about the one you like. That just beiing ridiculous, Shel.

  I did not bold so as to indicate that Socrates meant the Most Holy One of Israel... or His Son, dear EP (as always, peace to you!). That truth I received from my Lord and simply shared it. I bolded (and underlined) because it was insinuated that Socrates didn't believe in God but believed in many deities. This is not accurate. Socrates not only believed in a Most High God... but that (1) that One had sent him; (2) it was that One's message that he was giving to the Senate; and (3) that was the purpose of his life and his life's work. I also bolded/underlined to show that he didn't believe in many deities... and that was the problem: the Greeks had a pantheon of gods and because Socrates was trying to explain to them about the "gods" (God, aka "God" and Christ "the word of God")... and "demigods" (other spirit beings)... while acknowledging that the sun and moon are but physical bodies... he was styled an atheist. Which he vehemently denied.

  So many today take his arguments to mean he WAS an atheist... and use his "style" of asking questions to prompt others to think... as evidence of that. But nothing could be further from the truth! The man absolutely DID believe in God... indeed, the Most Holy One of Israel... AND His Word, the Holy One of Israel.

  I do not know this, however, because of having read Plato's account; I learned of Plato's account after my Lord told me, during a philosophy class in college... that Socrates "was [his] servant." Ummmmm, say what??? Socrates?? How can that be, Lord? Socrates is considered the "father" of modern philsophy, a teacher of wisdom and reasoning. The world looks to HIM as to how to reason. The WORLD!! How could he have been your servant? Besides... he was a GREEK philosopher!

  My Lord's response was that although, yes, he was Greek, there were many Jews, MANY Jews assimilated into the Grecian society. And, as they started to do while exiled in Babylon, they would gather, publicly, in their synagogues to discuss God, Moses, the Law vs. Grecian philosophy, and more. Apparently, Socrates lived among these as a child/young man and, as a young man, often debated with them. Until... he was personally called. From that point, he lived a life of asceticism and poverty... because, like Moses, he "esteemed the reproach of Christ as riches greater" than what he could have received as a Grecian philosopher. Given his wisdom... and following... and the esteem that the Greeks placed on philosophical "wisdom", he could have been a wealthy man. However, he chose to follow the One who called him.

  Of course, who am I to argue with what the Holy One of Israel has told me? Do I know? Nope, I don't (I have often admitted to you dear folks that I don't know ANYTHING... and that really is the truth; I really AM a bit of an airhead). But... I had learned to have faith in WHAT he told me, so I didn't question it. Okay, Lord, if that's what you say is the truth, then it must be. And then, lo, and behold... about 5-6 weeks later, the assignment was to read The Apology. Now, prior to that, you really couldn't have paid me to read Plato OR Socrates... first, because I thought their writings were, well, "lofty". Not because I had read them, but because I had been TOLD that by others. "Worldy" wisdom. Who needs it? I certainly didn't think I did. Second... because they're pretty lengthy. Borrrrrrring! But... I had a paper to write, so...

  And, as dear Miz Sibbie (peace to you, dear one!) often says: "Well, I'll be swoped!" There it was, all that my Lord had told me about Socrates... in PLATO'S writing!

  So, believe what you will, dear EP: that I learned about Socrates through my Lord, who told me these things, or not. But please, those of you who state that Socrates didn't believe in God... don't. Please. Because that isn't the truth... and just like you chide those who blindly accept what others erroneously say about the Bible, without reading it for themselves, and yet teach it as truth... you're doing the exact same thing: blindly accepting what others say about Socrates (and Plato!), without reading what they wrote/is written about them yourself... and then stating it as truth. No difference.

  Again, dear EP, peace to you!

  YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

  SA
• 

  PSacramento

  Personally, I find that some eastern approaches spiritual matters make more sense to me. I have not entirely dismissed the possibility that other dimensions exist, that we have yet to fully understand. But then, excluding the Bible, I would have to ask myself what basis there is for me to accept that there is a being called Jesus, to whom we are indebted.

  Having been in the martial arts for over 30 years and having trained in China, Japan and Macao, I was exposed and enjot Buddhist philosophies quite a bit.

  Love the works of the Dalai Lama for example.

  As for your question, that is why there is a bible, to point the way to Christ, in whome you will find the answers.

  No one is saying that the bible shoudl be excluded, just give its proper role and that role is beneth Christ, not inline and certaibly not above Him.
• 

  trevor

  PSacramento You have certainly lived a full life.

  I knew you were a martial arts expert. If we actually met, I think I would be more careful what I said :)
• 

  PSacramento

  PSacramento You have certainly lived a full life.

  I knew you were a martial arts expert. If we actually met, I think I would be more careful what I said :)

  LOL !
  Hardly an expert, just a passion of mine that has allowed me to experience some pretty cool things :)

  There is nothing more precious than life and expressing ourselves is what gives meaning to our life.

  As the Dalai lama said:

  "Every day, think as you wake up, today I am fortunate to have woken up, I am alive, I have a precious human life, I am not going to waste it. I am going to use all my energies to develop myself, to expand my heart out to others, to achieve enlightenment for the benefit of all beings, I am going to have kind thoughts towards others, I am not going to get angry or think badly about others, I am going to benefit others as much as I can."