Judas and Unforgivable Sin (page 2)

therevealer

Kudos to Godrulz and Aguest and others who have a clear and unambiguous understanding of these matters inspite of that impossibility.

cantleave

Unforgivable sin? Did Judas deny the GB?

snowbird

John 2:25 ... and didn't need anyone to tell him what people were like, because he himself knew what was in every person. International Standard Version

John 6:70-71 Jesus responded, "Haven't I handpicked you, the Twelve? Still, one of you is a devil!" He was referring to Judas, son of Simon Iscariot. This man—one from the Twelve!—was even then getting ready to betray him. The Message Bible

The above passages indicate that Jesus of Nazareth knew all along it would be Judas.

Was Judas' sin unforgiveable?

It's not for any of us to say.

Will Judas be resurrected?

I believe he will, also Adam and Eve.

Otherwise, The Evil One would have won.

Never may that happen!

Syl

NewChapter

JW's will argue that foreknowledge is different than foreordained. They will say god didn't make Judas do it, he just knew he would. Cuz he exercises his foreknowledge selectively. See? He doesn't know if you will decide to be faithful because he chooses not to. See? That used to keep me up at night.

NC

The Quiet One

The one sin explicitly mentioned as unforgivable in the Bible is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So it'd be a good thing to avoid.. if anybody knows what exactly that involves. Charliebrownjnr:Judas, according to the gospels, left before the evening meal began, so he wouldn't have been a part of that covenant. Newchapter: There are serious logical problems with that theory IMHO. 1) If God looked into the future and saw Judas betray Jesus, that would have to mean it had definitely happened as God can't be wrong and thus it would be set in stone. 2) If God can use this 'foreknowledge' ability in that way, why does he not use it to see who will become wicked and who will be good and save everyone a great deal of suffering? 3) If he can't use this ability in that way, how can he justly destroy anyone at armageddon when they could repent at any time/have children that will grow up to be good people? Some Watchtower theories only really make sense until you think about them..

snowbird

I believe that (sin against the HS) applied to the Pharisees only.

Syl

Terry

Here is how I make things easy on myself.

I simplify.

God is either one who deals with others based on JUSTICE (His sense of right and wrong) ....OR....

It is based on whim (case by case basis without regard to rigorous standard of right and wrong.)

Allowing the innocent to suffer and allowing the guility to go free (i.e. Grace) is clearly not JUSTICE.

Therefore, God's standard is whim.

For us to understand whim is to pretend it is objective rather than subjective.

Whim is never objective.

The Old Testament law is objective quid pro quo. It is balance. Fair is Fair.

New Testament grace is whim. Up is down. Wrong is Right. Jesus dies that men go free.

This makes God UNKNOWABLE. This is why men must FEAR God.

All the above only applies if you accept the bible as an accurate depiction of some palpable, provable, historical reality, of course!

Chariklo

Godrulz

Someone else could have become a betrayer with the generic verse being applied to them, Judas could have repented, or Judas could have not gone off track at all as God desired/intended.

The problem with that is that, unless, I am very much mistaken, Jesus himself made it clear that he knew who was going to betray him at the Last Supper.

can't leave

Unforgivable sin? Did Judas deny the GB?

Love it. Brilliant!

corpusdei

Now, I've always personally believed that a person does not sin by an act that they cannot avoid,

I think that is correct, or rather, pretty well what I've always understood, for what that's worth.

The Quiet One

The one sin explicitly mentioned as unforgivable in the Bible is blaspheming the Holy Spirit. So it'd be good to avoid.. if anybody knows what exactly that involves.

I have always understood that the unforgiveable sin is indeed against the Holy Spirit, and that it means deliberately, in full knowledge of God's Will to set oneself against it, absolutely knowing that one was setting oneself against the Holy Spirit. It would be blasphemy because it would be making oneself equal with God, by choosing to act against his will and purpose. I've always been taught that it must be so rare as to be close to impossible since, contrary to WT beliefs, we cannot possibly have full knowledge of God's will. His will is all-encompassing and necessarily infinitely beyond out comprehension because he is God.

I don't think I've given a very good explanation there but maybe it might help. It's hard to express because we're dealing in terms of almighty power and cosmic infinity, so very far beyond what our own minds can take in. I kind of feel I understand but it's all slippery stuff when it comes to putting it into words!

charlie brown jr.

It depends on which account you want to believe.....

Didn't John tell it .....Judas left after the Passover Meal?

And weren't John and Jesus........ BFF's?

The Quiet One

(edited last post) Terry: Why does case by case have to equal acting on a mere whim? All circumstances are different, the only way to judge fairly IMO is to judge case by case. For example, if the prison sentence for stealing a piece of bread was a number of years, and a man knew this but stole a piece to prevent him from starving to death when he had had all his money stolen from him and nobody would give him a job or have pity on him and feed him, just so he could live and pay back the money, with interest, would you feel that it would only be absolutely just to give him the full prison sentence, even if you knew that under ANY other circumstance the man would not have stolen? That is legalism to me, not true justice which should be balanced with mercy... Its fine if you disagree, I'm only asking, not being dogmatic :)

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

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