Judas and Unforgivable Sin (page 8)

transhuman68

Even Catholics consider Spong a lunatic fringe nut.

Well, if you and the Catholic Church don't approve of Spong, then he must be right!

Mary

Terry said: How can the writer KNOW WHAT JESUS HAD IN HIS OWN MIND? The statement of what Jesus had known and how long he had known it is strictly a personal injection of the author into the narrative to smooth over difficulty.

Excellent point Terry. I would venture a guess though that it would be argued that the HS imparted this bit of salacious info into whoever wrote that.

I have to say, I'm glad to see that this has generated as much discussion as it has, though in parts it seems more like I may have kicked a hornets nest a little ;) With the interest in this issue, I did end up going back and doing the research on it (at least as far as Witness theology goes). The full contents are here, but to summarize - there's nothing to point to Judas himself being pre-destined to be the one to betray Jesus. There is a scripturally supportable argument to be made, however, that the act of betrayal itself was prophesied and therefore inescapable. Jesus reference to Judas as the "son of destruction" (John 17:12) and that he would keep all from destruction save that one can be taken as a support that Judas had comitted an unforgivable sin.

ProdigalSon

The Holy Spirit is within one's own body. YOU are the Holy Spirit. This is why Jesus said that sin against the Holy Spirit was unforgivable. If you sin against your own body, that sin in itself will kill you. It will prevent you from gnosis. It will prevent you from ascending. None of this means everlasting destruction, it just means you'll have to keep incarnating until you get it right.

So, although the story of Judas is an allegory, he representing your ego, Judas could not have committed the unforgivable sin by betraying Jesus. He committed the unforgivable sin by sinning against himself. This is the esoteric truth to the story as taught by the mystery schools.

Note what Paul said:

1 Corinthians 6:18 Flee from fornication. Every other sin that a man may commit is outside his body, but he that practices fornication is sinning against his own body.

Now as for what exactly "fornication" is, we've been lied to about that also. But that's for another thread, and another time.

ixthis

ProdigalSon said: The Holy Spirit is within one's own body. YOU are the Holy Spirit.

"Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit" is referred to in Mark 3:28-30, where Jesus says:

"I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be forgiven them. But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin."

He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."

Matthew's account of this (Matthew 12:31-32) is similar:

"And so I tell you, every sin and blasphemy will be forgiven men, but the blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

"Blasphemy" is the translation of the Greek word "blasphemeo" (βλασφημεω); it means:

(1) to speak reproachfully, rail at, revile, calumniate, blaspheme
(2) to be evil spoken of, reviled, railed at

Here is St. John Chrysostom's explanation of the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (from Homily 41 on Matthew):

First then it were well to listen to the very words: "All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men; but the blasphemy of the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto them. And whosoever speaks a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever speaks against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."
What now is it that He affirms? Many things have ye spoken against me; that I am a deceiver, an adversary of God. These things I forgive you on your repentance, and exact no penalty of you; but blasphemy against the Spirit shall not be forgiven, no, not to those who repent. And how can this be right? For even this was forgiven upon repentance. Many at least of those who said these words believed afterward, and all was forgiven them. What is it then that He says? That this sin is above all things unpardonable. Why so? Because Himself indeed they knew not, who He might be, but of the Spirit they received ample experience. For the prophets also by the Spirit said whatever they said; and indeed all in the Old Testament had a very high notion of Him.
What He says, then, is this: Be it so: you are offended at me, because of the flesh with which I am encompassed: can you say of the Spirit also, We know it not? And therefore is your blasphemy unpardonable, and both here and hereafter shall you suffer punishment. For many indeed have been punished here only (as he who had committed fornication,as they who partook unworthily of the mysteries,amongst the Corinthians); but ye, both here and hereafter.
Now as to your blasphemies against me, before the cross, I forgive them: and the daring crime too of the cross itself; neither shall you be condemned for your unbelief alone. (For neither had they, that believed before the cross, perfect faith. And on many occasions He even charges them to make Him known to no man before the Passion; and on the cross He said that this sin was forgiven them.) But as to your words touching the Spirit, they will have no excuse. For in proof that He is speaking of what was said of Him before the crucifixion, He added, "Whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of Man, it shall be forgiven him; but whosoever shall speak against the Holy Ghost," there is no more forgiveness. Wherefore? Because this is known to you; and the truths are notorious which you harden yourselves against. For though ye say that you know not me; yet of this surely you are not ignorant, that to cast out devils, and to do cures, is a work of the Holy Ghost. It is not then I only whom you are insulting, but the Holy Ghost also. Wherefore your punishment can be averted by no prayers, neither here nor there.

The Holy Church early on determined that blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is conscious, hardened opposition to the truth. The Holy Spirit constitutes all truth (John 16:13, 14:26, 15:26), He is the Spirit of Truth (John 14:17); thus, the Lord Himself calls Him.

The Holy Spirit is a Person, one of the Holy Trinity which is God. The Holy Spirit is not an "energy" (although some Catholic/Anglican theologians have clouded the issue by claiming that the Holy Spirit represents the "bond" between the Father and the Son) and the Holy Spirit is not "us".

God is uncreated. His energy is "uncreated".

The grace from God we experience within us, through the Holy Spirit, is an uncreated energy of God.

And what happened to the 30 pieces of silver?

Shall we guess which story to believe?

transhuman68

LOL. Preach it, PS!

Judas and Unforgivable Sin

transhuman68

Mary

corpusdei

ProdigalSon

ixthis

godrulz

ProdigalSon

ProdigalSon

ProdigalSon

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