Does the Issue of Universal Sovereignty make sense to you as an explanation for evil? (page 13)

tec

Ah, I see... same old same old. Attack someone for their style, then get meaner when they call you out for it.

Shelby, I hope you have fun tonight! A fine pen convention? Gonna have to look that one up ;)

Peace,

Tammy (waves hello up at N. Drew too)

Yep, dear tec (the greatest of love and peace to you, dear one!). The hubby's a master calligrapher and pen collector... and so into pens... and inks.. and lettering of all kinds (he's currently studying/doing Hebrew lettering... again... but his specialties are Black Letter, Spencerian, and Copperplate). He's VERY good and has done hand-lettering for all kinds of things. We actually owned a stationery/pen store once (I designed the logo and marquee!):

Unfortunately, when the economy began to go south, retail of "luxury" items like vintage/high end pens and stationery (Crane, Caspari, etc.) was among the first things hit. Who wants to spend $1,500 on a pen (yeah, that was our most expensive... and they go up... WAY up... from there!) or $150 on paper... when they're broke (AND has a computer and printer)? We had a lot of fun over the years... but we decided to cut our losses and get out before our lease renewed AND the market REALLY tanked.

Ennywho...

You wouldn't believe what "fine" pens can cost, dear girl. Some, well over $7,000. A few over $15,000...

Peace!

SA, on her own...

tec

I would love to be in that store. (as would my sister) Just to look though... with a very hands OFF approach! Not just because of the cost, but because they are so very "fine". Like art. I'm not always so delicate with my things, lol.

Peace,

Tammy

Qcmbr

The only way I could understand God's unwillingness to do anything about suffering is that in the next life we would have undying bodies so pain itself would be different (it would serve a different function if it existed at all) and so our only reference point to measure ourselves and others by would be the yardstick of our remembered mortal pain. Thus someone without sight would always appreciate eternal sight more than the one who never experienced its loss. The brutally murdered or the abused would have levels of understanding that those who lived less painful lives would be unable to understand. This was the hidden pay off to Christ - one reason he had to suffer all pain was that it was the route to ultimate happiness and understanding (the concept of pleasure measured as absence of pain principle ) in other words an eternal garden of eden to a being unaware of pain (pre fall Adam) would be less marvelous and fulfilling than an eternal eden for the pain remembering prodigal son ( post fall, atoned Adam).

Sick , stupid thinking really, pain ends up a positive! I shake my head at what a sophisticated idiot I was.

Qcmbr

Ah, I see... same old same old. Attack someone for their style, then get meaner when they call you out for it.

Shelby is not naive - she is the most passive aggresive poster I've ever met. Her mask has been slipping of late which I like since we get a better look at the real Shelby, she is snarky and snide when pushed, which makes me feel much more comfortable. When chatting to the artificial construct AGuest it feels like kicking a puppy when responding critically to her soft wiffle, much prefer a frank exchange of ideas! More Shelby less AGuest. Yay.

zengalileo

No, and it never did for me. A giant pissing contest between the Devil and God. It's all"I want to be worshipped!" "No I want to be worshipped more!" "No I deserve it cuz I did more yard work than you did!" "Nu uh, Mom said I could get credit for doing the dishes and some inside work!" "No way! Dad told me the boys had to work outside! I deserve to be worshipped!" "Yeah but Dad is always your favorite cuzx you get more home runs in T-ball, but I'm a better fielder!" "Yeah well your a mommas boy anyway."... and it just goes on like that. Real mature God there. I have always tended to think that the Devil, as described in the Jewish Bible, is a much more mature and reasonable person. All the real sick shit in the Bible was done by jehovah. The devil just sits there and calls it like he sees it. Less head games with the Jewish bible devil. Easier to please.

tec

The only way I could understand God's unwillingness to do anything about suffering...

I understand differently.

Though this... why does God allow suffering... is perhaps one of the biggest issues in loss of faith, imo. Not understanding it used to bother me as well. But I trusted that the answer to the question was as it should be, and right.

Still, I couldn't see that answer.

I have since received some understanding, though.

God will not harm the innocent. How could He rid the world of evil, if not by 'ending free will' or destroying all those who commit evil? Those who hurt others in particular? Not just murder, or rape, but also cruelty, emotional/physical/mental abuse, greed, etc? That's just about everyone alive, really. Because those things... they lead to further evil, pain, anger, hurt, damage and retaliation.

But He won't risk destroying the wheat in amongst the weeds. He will spare a thousand unrighteous for the sake of one righteous. He wouldn't have dropped an atomic bomb on hiroshima, for instance, killing innocent with the guilty alike.

Suffering, as well, does have a purpose though. It can teach some humility, empathy, honesty. Someone who made a practice of hurting others... once hurt themselves might realize what they are doing and change their heart and way. Liars and greedy/content people often cannot see their own selfishness and greed, until they suffer and are forced to live what they once scorned. Some do not understand the pain of others, and so cannot empathise, unless they also have pain. Some who put on a pretense even to themselves, for their friends or reputation or whatever, cannot be honest even with themselves... until they have nothing left to lose.

Good things can come from suffering... good things that a particular person or nation would never have seen without suffering first.

Apply suffering to the 'weeds'... and some of those weeds might be allowed to become wheat.

There is of course a drawback... and that is that wheat is harmed by the weeds permitted to grow alongside them. But God can and does and will comfort them.

Peace,

Tammy

bohm

Shelby is ill. thats the sad fact. As it is, this is like having long arguments with a person suffering every symptom of major depression but are in denial and like to convince everyone the depressed world-view is the correct one.

If God eventually turn evil on her (and i think i have seen signs that make me question if the voices are all good) she need to know modern medicine is the place to go.

Qcmbr

He wouldn't have dropped an atomic bomb on hiroshima, for instance, killing innocent with the guilty alike.

Well he did by defaulting to passive observance - there is culpability when the universal magic power on the block allows the whole project to be completed, the plane to be flown and then to idly watch as the children burned.

I'd make a much better god. I'd ban war not sexual positions. I'd talk to people using the communication devices I designed for them (ears). I'd whup ass child abusers and wife beaters. I'd write some really clear instructions and make sure it translated well into other languages. I'd answer prayers, all of them, with a personal answer - after all they made the effort to talk to me - I sure as heck would answer my fan mail.

I'd get rid of cancer and alzheimers on day one and then I'd look at all the other garbage illnesses people got because of my poor design skills and I'd fix them too.

I'd even fix AGuests shoulder and I'd have words with my battlemage and tell him to visit people during daylight hours because they need their sleep.

Vote Q for God!

N.drew

Shelby? You are not sounding depressed to me.

And the "pen convention" is so singularly curious!

How much can be said about a pen? A whole convention's worth!

Does the Issue of Universal Sovereignty make sense to you as an explanation for evil?

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