An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 139)

ShadesofGrey

What was the average size of a dinosaur? How big were the huge dinosaurs in their youth? What size is the biggest dinosaur egg?

Zid, I never said a twelve year old could not come to a conclusion on their own. (or a five year old you, for that matter... you must have come to your conclusion on your own, or at least I must assume so - doubt anyone else was feeding that to you) But the bible doesn't say what that 'twelve year old' in the above scenario thinks it said... although some in her life have led her to believe that it does state these things - which she is then smart enough to dismiss those false things. And apparently that is the case; as she came to that conclusion after watching a film in her church.

Jeff, no doubt there are a lot of fundamental groups that think similar to the JW's. (though I don't understand what your point was about that, in regard to filters - more than one group believing something doesn't make it right, does it?) I have this set of books that someone loaned me. I have only finished the first one, but I just can't get through some of it - it is very fundamental in writing. The authors are fundamental and believe armageddon will play out in similar fashion to what they wrote; they believe the UN is the beast and is headed up by the anti-christ. The difference is their UN has been taken over by one man, the anti-christ. ANYWAY... the point is that there are similarities to JW's, but enough differences as well (trinity)... but none of that makes either group right.

Peace,

Tammy

ziddina

"Average" size?

WHICH period - during the Triassic [250 million years ago to 203 mya], when dinosaurs finally obtained an advantageous evolutionary niche, and began evolving into dominant groups of animals? During the Triassic - early part - the planet was still dominated by reptilian life forms, like the various forms of proto-crocodilian reptiles... The presence of these reptiles kept the dinosaurs small - the largest raptor during the Triassic was only around 6 feet tall, if I remember correctly...

Then during the Jurassic [202 mya to 142 mya], dinosaurian life REALLY exploded. That is when the Allosaurus stood at 35 feet tall [compare THAT to the much smaller two-legged raptors of the Triassic], the sauropods like Diplodocus grew up to 45 feet long, just to name a couple.

Then came the Cretaceous [141 mya to 65 mya], with the infamous T-Rex, Triceratops, and others... The T-Rex could grow up to 42 feet long - at least, that's the largest specimen discovered so far. The Apatosaurus [the Apatosaurus formerly known as Brontosaurus...] grew up to 70 - 90 feet long, weighing in at an estimated weight of over 30 tons. The Triceratops was around 24 feet long and 8 - 10 feet tall....

And the GROWTH rate on these animals was PHENOMENAL!!! Starting out with eggs that were usually the size of a modern ostrich's egg, the Diplodocus grew to sexual maturity within around 10 years - which meant that they had to go from the size of a small iguana, for example, to larger than a HOUSE in 10 years or so...

An accellerated growth rate also helped the large herbivores survive, since they did start out relatively small, compared to the predators present in their ancient worlds...

AK - Jeff

Tec - my point was that not just Jw's believe that - someone [I can't recall now who, nor do I care really] suggested that this girl had learned this idea from Jw's. I found it curious and interesting that the person associated this as a Jw-only belief. Hence, the filter comment.

Jeff

AK - Jeff

I found the original premise of this thread, formatted differently, and thought it apropo to add to the thread.

Assumption (1): God exists.
Assumption (1a): God is all-knowing.
Assumption (1b): God is all-powerful.
Assumption (1c): God is perfectly loving.
Assumption (1d): Any being that did not possess all three of the above properties would not be God.
Premise (2): Evil exists.
Premise (3): An all-knowing being would be aware of the existence of evil.
Premise (4): An all-powerful being would be able to eliminate evil.
Premise (5): A perfectly loving being would desire to eliminate evil.
Conclusion (6): Evil does not exist. (from (1),(3),(4),(5))
Contradiction: But evil does exist. (from (2))
Conclusion (7): There is no being that is all-knowing, all-powerful, and perfectly loving. (from (2),(3),(4),(5))
Conclusion (8): God does not exist. (from (7),(1d))

tec

Lot of assumptions ;)

Premise 4/5 - He would, true... but an all-powerful being would know how to do that, for all, for all time... we do not.

Peace,

tammy

Flat_Accent

Lots of assumptions . . . but do you disagree with any of them, tec?

tec

I disagree with making assumptions, and then basing a 'logical' sequence and conclusion upon them.

Too many variables are not addressed... one that I pointed out in the post above yours, Flat.

For instance, if taking away freedom is an act of evil, then taking away free will is also an act of evil. Yet as long as we have free will, we have the ability to choose what we do, and sometimes our choices cause hurt and pain and anger, which can lead to acts of evil.

We, however, do not know the consequences of having no free will. God knows. So perhaps he knows e x actly what he is doing.

(all-knowing is an assumption that I am not sure I agree with)

Peace,

tammy

cofty

if taking away freedom is an act of evil, then taking away free will is also an act of evil.

Preventing a tsunami at the moment of its genesis does not limit free will.

The free will defense is a red herring.

OnTheWayOut

I will also continue to fall back on Cofty's statement above. Thousands upon thousands of children with no input to jeopardize freewill.

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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