An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 41)

still thinking

wontleave...

So, we end up with a long, drawn-out argument that sways nobody, because the entire premise of the discussion is based on an initial lie. God isn't fixing things in anyone's life.

Firstly, I would like to say that you cannot speak for everyone else when you say nobody is swayed by these discussions...my ideas and beliefs have changed considerably since I started posting on this board.

And then to state that the entire premise of the discussion is based on an initial lie...well...that I think is just your opinion. The same as stating that God isn't fixing things in anyones life...can you prove that?

Well then, even though your opinion is valid, It isn't absolute.

Rabbit

*sigh 2*

We have better justice among ourselves, WE do not punish the children for the 'sins' of the father.

"Surely, you gest, dear Rabbit (peace to you!). I don't the children who suffer as a result of war would agree with that..."

Rabbit: You've completely missed my 'it's God's fault' point. See below.

God itself had to tamper with Adam & Eve's DNA in order to make them die.

AG: Yes. To save YOU...

Rabbit: Save...me ? My wife and I have DNA-gone-wild-trying-to-kill-us-twice...cancer. Geezus H. Christ on-a-pogo-stick, thanks God.

He could have used His big foot and squashed them -- then, start over on His little project gone wrong.

AG: But then, where would YOU be? Non-existent... and unable to take "issue" as you are now. Hmmmmm... maybe that WOULD have been better. Although, not so good for YOUR kids/grandkids, etc...

Rabbit: Yes...very good...you've figured it out! Congrats ! If, I had never existed...SO WHAT ? I, nor my kids would have missed anything ! I'm impressed by your, "...maybe that WOULD have been better." It's so sweet and christiany

I do not deserve any punishment at all for what Adam & Eve did, nor would I be responsible if it was my own parents.

God is NOT punishing you, dear one. Adham SOLD you into punishment - HE sold you to DEATH. I love that you believe the Most Holy One of Israel only needed to snap His fingers and poof! all that Adham did would disappear. But YOU would have disappeared, too, dear one. Instead, though, you have been given a chance to LIVE...

Dearest Sister AG,

Adam was never, ever the All Powerful, supposedly "God" is tho'. Adam was simply told he would die "that day", that was a lie by God. Adam & Eve should have never lived another day in order to pass on defective DNA to me and my wife and give us cancer. I won't worship any god like that.

And, if somehow I had a "choice" and could "fix things" I would choose non-existance...if it could reverse all the Biblical human tragedies.

Agnostic Rabbit

WontLeave

This is from the perspective of the Bible being true. At least, if you're going to argue about the Bible, argue what it actually says, rather than what your brains have mutilated it into.

Great... Now, we have people on both sides of this pointless exercise agreeing God tampered with Adam and Eve's DNA to make them die. Where in the Bible does it say that Adam and Eve were created immortal? It's clear in Genesis that the Tree of Life sustained them and their access to it was cut off. Nothing in Scripture indicates humans are cursed. The Tree of Life obviously had healing and renewing agents (supported in Revelation 22) which are either not currently known or do not currently exist. It would have to be a compound, as all elements are known and the table was complete even before all were discovered.

This discussion reminds me so much of listening to stoners wax philosophical. It makes my brain hurt to experience people whose reading comprehension barely encompasses the ability to understand "See Spot run. Run, Spot! Run!" attempting to dissect something as complex as the Bible. I'm not opposed to philosophical debate or even conjecture, but 2 sides volleying back and forth the tripe spewed in this thread is nauseating.

N.drew

Wontleave? Hello! Good morning. You say some things that are absolutely true. Do you want to know what they are?

But this I disagree with and I wish you will explain in un-troll like words what do you mean. I can only guess that you mean faith as a whole thing over space and time. But we Christians can say the same for you. People are doing more harm than good, and it surprises you that Christains are people?

works because of anything your pastor said or that you think you remember hearing somewhere. This entire thread is a laundry list of reasons people become atheists. For the most part, "Christians" are ignorant, stupid, and superstitious. You are doing far more harm than good for your cause, so if you care at all about anyone ever changing their minds in favor of theism, please crawl back into your ill-informed, illogical, kooky hole and stop - for the love of God - talking.

My question; is how is tec (Tammy) harming anyone? I might use everyone, but she seems the best example this morning. She might be the sweetest person I have ever encountered. So, how?

OnTheWayOut

If you believe God is doing anything to help you with your mundane life, you've lost your mind. Anything you "preach" to that effect just piles up evidence that you are not to be listened to, because you've completely slipped off your cracker.

Bravo for WontLeave. But really, the Lord will tell Christian people to feed their dog and take that package to the post office. I have to believe that in order to understand how the Lord is too busy to be helping children of heathens in Indonesia. Otherwise, there's just no excuse.

N.drew

Thanks OTWO, you found the quote I would respond to.

Mundane? No, that is far far from the truth.

And you are just being silly, Christ will tell us to feed the dog? Did you hear that from somebody? In case someone told you that, how is it you believe him?

watersprout

But really, the Lord will tell Christian people to feed their dog and take that package to the post office.

Good Lord OTWO let it go! Or at least get the info right. The poster stated that the Lord said to him ''your wife is going to tell you something'' or something to that effect.

tec

If you believe God, through His Son, canNOT do anything to help you with your mundane life (including speak to, teach, or grant fruits of the spirit - joy, peace, gentleness, patience, love, mercy, forgiveness), then what do you believe in? Does your faith allow you to be kinder, more forgiving, more loving, more merciful... all the things that Christ asks of us?

Or something else altogether?

This is from the perspective of the Bible being true. At least, if you're going to argue about the Bible, argue what it actually says, rather than what your brains have mutilated it into.

Was that directed at me, as an answer to the question I asked of you?

If so, I would submit that the bible does not say anything of the sort. It in fact does say that 'in those days' your sons and daughters will prophecy, etc. It does not say that the gifts of the Holy Spirit will stop with the disciples, or that the Holy Spirit will not be given after the disciples. Again, Paul was not among the men standing there, and yet, after Christ died, He received those gifts.

Peace (and to you N.Drew )

Tammy

OnTheWayOut

And you are just being silly, Christ will tell us to feed the dog? Did you hear that from somebody? In case someone told you that, how is it you believe him?

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/197473/1/The-Master-spoke-to-me-this-morning

http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/jw/friends/217573/1/Baptism-in-Holy-Spirit-and-in-Fire

The Lord or "the Master" is very busy. No time for the children of heathens.

N.drew

Know something? When a person of faith posts a good debatable statement you (some, not all) ignore it. But when a person of faith says something stupid, you attribute it to Christ? I am watching you. I know it is true. So, why? And again I hope that guy comes back to explain what harm is being done in the name of faith?

Please accept my apology Tammy.

(See!, that's not so hard)

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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