An Old Argument.... does it hold water? (page 42)

watersprout

But when a person of faith says something stupid, you attribute it to Christ?

I'm not sure what you are getting at Nancy... Are you saying that the experience Inkie posted was stupid?

Peace

tec

You don't need to apologise to me, N.Drew!

I am sure you missed the point of the post. It was about the air, the spirit. Inkie was testifing to the power of the spirit between persons. Which is very important (in my humble opinion) to what is and what will be.

If you learn to hate the demonstration of faith you become the adversary, and the adversary is just what you are complaining of, isn't it?

Thank you Tammy!

WontLeave

Let the flaming and denial begin. I don't care. Reality doesn't bend to your opinions. The only tool most of you have is fantasy and denial. Ignorance of a fact isn't the same as proof against it.

If we see so little of the gifts of the spirit, then it is because there is so little faith in this world.

See? This is the kind of garbage that makes atheists.This sounds like hippies believing if enough people exude positive energy while in a drum circle, they can stop a war. Have you ever even perused the Bible? It's full of examples of miracles performed through a single individual surrounded by people with no faith in God. The way some people talk here, "faith" is a battery that runs God. Don't even get me started on the redefinition of "faith" as belief in something ridiculous. Many "Christians" feel they have to turn God into something irrational and stupid to truly have "faith". Believing something believable or credible isn't enough. The more insane and retarded the version of God you believe in obviously makes you that much more faithful, in your minds.

The same as stating that God isn't fixing things in anyones life...can you prove that?

Yes. To an insane, hard-headed, and/or ill-informed theist? Probably not. Proof that it doesn't happen lies in the absence of evidence that it does. Seeing as it's impossible to prove a negative beyond all unreasonable doubt, that's a red herring. Blind, irrational denial isn't a legitimate argument. Scripture says the only enduring gift of Holy Spirit is love. Every modern instance of "speaking in tongues" is fake. Every modern instance of "faith healing" is fake. There are no modern miracles and anyone who believes there are puts their beliefs in the same category with Zeus, Vishnu, and Isis.

My question; is how is tec (Tammy) harming anyone?

The same way Hellfire preachers harm. During WW2, Hitler isn't believed to have personally killed anyone (except himself and possibly Eva Braun). Is that to say he isn't responsible for millions of deaths? Lies and propaganda are weapons. I'm sure you've all heard "The pen is mightier than the sword." Misinformation and ignorance are plagues on this planet and a lot of people in this thread are riddled with it. Some are simply carriers, but others probably have a vastly lower quality of life because of it. Then there are some who naturally have a low quality of life due to low intelligence, horrible education, mental/emotional problems and have deluded themselves that Jesus is hanging out in their living room, making sure nothing bad happens. This is exactly the sort of delusion people who are colossal failures at life need. So many want to believe life is balanced; that for every aspect of one's life that sucks, something else is amazing. Too many people are religious because they feel they need it: Their lives are such atrocious train wrecks that they need to believe the Almighty is personally (or through angels) responsible for the precious few things that aren't going wrong. This is the exact same mentality that causes janitors in polyester suits to believe they're hand-picked by the creator of the Universe to be JW elders.

N.drew

You have information that "Hellfire preachers" harm? The fear of torment might be a deterrent for some to resist doing evil. It is the Watchtower Society that teaches it is of no consequence. Do you also, like them, believe it is of no consequence? No, you don't. You believe it causes harm. How so?

tec

Have you ever even perused the Bible? It's full of examples of miracles performed through a single individual surrounded by people with no faith in God.

I could ask you the same question. The point you seem to be missing on this subject and in your own words, Won'tleave, is that this individual DOES have faith. So that faith has been made manifest (in a 'miracle', or in any number of gifts of the spirit'). You don't have to have faith to witness it.

I have to go to work, so I can't address any of the other stuff you said right now. I'll get back to you later.

Peace,

Tammy

ShadesofGrey

As a Christian, I believe that Hellfire preachers cause harm. They are representing my God, the God of grace and justice. In the OT not every sin required the death penalty did it? In the NT there were 4 slaves mentioned in Luke chapter 12... not only 2.

N.drew

Some of the false teachings that religion has perpetrated are not true of the individual, but if applied to the future of Earth, could they apply?

OnTheWayOut

For N.drew: Two brown bears were sitting in a bathtub. One asks the other to pass the soap. The others says "What do I look like, a duck?"

Ha ha ha. Oh, that joke is so funny everytime I tell it.

TheUbermensch

still thinking, the only value one can find in Mein Kampf is that it was written by one of the most infamous human beings in history. The political ideals (and life story) are horribly ridiculous (basically saying that someone will always be better than someone else, and those people should rule). I definitely suggest reading it, that way you can just say that you have.

Ah yes N.drew. Speaking like a true Christian.

"Fear makes us the instruments of Power. When we are afraid, we obey."

No, fear of hell does not deter one from doing evil, fear deters one from not believing in God.

I don't understand this at all. You leave one extremity (JW's) to join another (whatever Christian fundamentalist group you belong to). It's such a waste. You had might as well stayed a Jehovah's Witness, there isn't any difference, you are just as full of delusion as you were before.

Nietzsche had an excellent idea. The reason that human beings turn to the other world (heaven, hell, any theistic belief) is because of an extreme dissatisfaction with life, and in this other world the people who made them unhappy are punished. The only real goal of a human being is "Ubermensch" or superman or overman. The Ubermensch is someone who doesn't need the other world, he has faced reality in the natural world. He has reached the ultimate nihilism (the only realistic view of life in Nietzsche's opinion) and found that the meaning in life is not absent without an outside extremity (i.e. God, Allah, the Buddha) but the value of life is instilled by him, not another outside force, he has the power of his life, no one else.

Personally that's a much more logical view than someone in the sky who made a bunch of humans write a book chronicling his horrible failures in the creation of everything, and the wars he made them wage. Why does no one ever ask how/why Satan beat God in the book of Genesis? How did he get into the garden? Doesn't make any sense.

An Old Argument.... does it hold water?

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