by wannabefree 146 Replies latest members private
@HappyDad- I'm a member of a bodybuilding message board as well. It's a funny thing. Almost everyone on there is 6'1" 235lbs with a 29" waist and 7% body fat. Don't you find that interesting?
In case you're slow as well. I'm calling you a liar. Or at least an idiot. You can't indict 66% of a population. It's just plain stupid.
What I'm saying, curiouscynic, is that had you NOT been an elder's son, that first offense would have been an automatic DF. There are way too many of us here with similar (some scarily so) stories for us to be making stuff up. As I said, there are INDIVIDUAL elders who are striving to help...but they are few and far between. Most are "company men" and will kiss the Governing Body's ass by DF'ing ANYONE they view as a potential threat. All that person has to do is QUESTION the Governing Body. Not the Bible. Not God. The Governing Body! All the elders need is to catch wind of someone having doubts about this being "god's organization" and they are automatically on the defensive. They go in demanding to know exactly what your views are on the organization, NOT the Bible. It's all about the Society. And it's done under the guise of "keeping the congregation clean".
Some here are still serving as elders. Others were elders while they were in. They have first-hand experience of what goes on AFTER they've met with the "offender" and have to discuss matters before rendering a decision. Calling these men liars is spitting in the face of everything they've been through and seen. They are a valuable resource and an asset to this board.
Also, name calling (ie. calling HappyDad an idiot) is not allowed on this board per the forum rules. I'm sure, with your intellect and experience, you can have an open and honest discussion without resorting to name calling and inflammatory statements. Everyone is different, and some have had different experiences within the cult. However, be aware that your experience is the EXCEPTION, not the rule.
With respect to the name-calling... I didn't draw first blood. The She-Devil's comments coupled with HappyDad's suggestion that I'm an extraterrestrial provided me with the freedom to speak freely. That said, if it's against the rules to call a spade a spade, DIRECTLY, I'll make every attempt to comply.
I'm not knew to BEING an Ex-JW... but I'm new to the Ex-JW culture. And you guys, definitely have your own culture, lingo, and belief system.
What you are mistaking as naitivity or still being mentally "in" the organization, is what the rest of the world refers to as being "reasonable." It's pronounced ree-zuhn-nuh-bul and it means to be fair and sensible. The simple fact is that you cannot demonize 66% percent of ANY demographic. It just doesn't make sense. That's what HappyDad did. He said that only 1 in 3 elders make any attempt to be decent, reasonable men. That simply can't possibly be the case, I don't care what you think you know. It's a mathematic impossibility.
Like I said to the She-Devil, I'm beginning to understand that some people are just BELIEVERS. They'll believe anything anyone tells them. I've always thought that the JWs ideology and nature attract the mentally and emotionally weak. The fact that so many XJWs appear to want to drink the new kool-aid so quickly and easily is pretty convincing evidence. They came in mentally weak, when they left, they weren't any stronger so they allowed themselves to become obsessed with the next, most readily available ideology. Freethought is apparently not an option.
I know this isn't politically correct, but I'm not trying to be intentionally insensitive here. My life has been severely negatively impacted by the doctrine of JWs. But you guys in these most recent posts are engaging in the EXACT kind of behavior and activity that you accuse the JWs of. You're attempting to squash reasonable dissention. You want your own ideas reinforced and alternate opinions rebuked.
In what way is my experience exceptional?
In my experience, no elder body wants to disfellowship anybody..
In what way is my experience exceptional?
It`s nonsense..
People reading your posts know it`s nonsense..
...................... 
...OUTLAW
Gosh this is a nasty thread. It seems like curiouscynic is overstating his expertise a little. That being said I've only been in two judicial hearings. One they bent over backwards to NOT df me, and the other they DID df me for shockingly LESS of a sin that I committed the first time. So I think that tghere is sucha wide array of JCs that it's almost impossible to say they are like this or that. It's a crap shoot. You coould get elders that are just cumming in their pants to DF you, and others who wouldn't df you if you raped their daughter. It's such a convaluted process and that is why there is no money back guarantee that you get what you bargained for. there is no quality control. The elders don't answer to the WT they answer directly to God in their minds AND legally in the minds of the WT Society. The WT never questions their decisions I believe. If they did do that then law suits could get to the top of the org, and that is exactly what they don't want.
Excellent post Zengalileo! It's about time someone said something that makes sense.
I have been involved in a judicial matter in which the elders called Bethel and received instruction. They privately prayed together, then ignored the direction of the organization's legal counsel. Someone from NY called back to ask if the direction had been followed, the elder body replied that it had not. They were instructed to follow directions immediately and call back as soon as it was done. They again prayed privately. They took an action completely different from what the society directed then called the society to explain that the matter has been settled.
So, I disagree slightly with the last statement. Other than that, including your skepticism of my "expertise." Good post. :) [Although, the last thing you want here is ME agreeing with you. LOL]
Welcome curiouscynic , I have to say that I agree with much of what you say.
I was an elder at one time and I don't think most want to jump on the judicial wagon, at least in my experience. Then again, there are the hardliners, the ones who have a KM and/or Watchtower article for everything, these are the ones that helped me to realize that the Organization was pharasaical because they were right. They upheld the true cold side of the Organization, when it came down to it, the more liberal thinking elders were trumped because there it was, right there in black and white, the Organization said so, hard line elder wins. I suppose it depends much on the makeup of the elder body as to whether or not this is the exception or the rule.
Over the past nearly two years after my awakening, I have found that most of what I thought would amount to something was just my own paranoia, because I know I am guilty, self-incrimination, acting defensively, probably raising suspicion, and if I continue down that road, I guess I will trip the "we gotta do something about this" response. I may have done that already.
The simple fact is that you cannot demonize 66% percent of ANY demographic. It just doesn't make sense.
That's what HappyDad did. He said that only 1 in 3 elders make any attempt to be decent, reasonable men.
That simply can't possibly be the case, I don't care what you think you know. It's a mathematic impossibility.....CC
You don`t have a problem White Washing 100% of the DemoGraphic..
In my experience, no elder body wants to disfellowship anybody .......CC
...................... ...OUTLAW
BOE differ due location, education or culture they grew up in. It may be true that some may not df everyone for fornication (I wasn't) or such, BUT when it comes to apostasy, you bet they will hang you. You can beat your wife or cheat on her and get away with few privileges lost but if you say GB are bunch of liars, you will get df and no questions asked. The OP is possibly dealing with apostasy jc not something else. When it comes to apostasy wts doesn't tolerate dissidents and will df them on any opportunity they can.
I am sorry you are stressed. It is normal to feel that way. I would not call them back. Avoid the calls. Although what is your wife going to say? Is she cool, or will she try to cause something drastic?
If you do talk to them, do not go to the KH. If you chat on the phone or they stop by, do not let them steer the conversation and corner you into the questions about JW labeled apostacy. Tell them that you want to be left alone, that you don't bother people or disturb the peace, and that you want the same respect and privacy to life. If they interfere, or insist on getting involved, you will take steps to preserve your rights to not be harassed. Take it to the level you need to depending on how pushy they get.
