the elders want to meet with me tomorrow (page 10)

besty

a couple more ideas on what you might give as reasons for not being at the meetings:

I think (IMHO) there are a couple of points you can make that are difficult to argue with:

1 - my conscience won't allow me to remain affiliated with an organisation that <rewrites its own history, has no mechanism in place to address dissent, appears to have lost Jehovahs blessing, has a history of failing to comply with child protection laws in many countries and giving more rights to molestors than victims or whatever you feel you can make a case for> My conscience has troubled me for years and I can't ignore it any more...etc lay it on thick

2 - I do not feel that my children are safe in the congregation. There is a problem with child molestors - nobody denies that - the WTS has even paid out of court in to make the allegations against Brooklyn Bethel go away quietly. Lets take a situation that occurs all the time in KH's all over the world. A known molestor moves in from another KH, for whatever reason. (Even worse if it was an unknown molestor but anyway...)Why do elders children have a better level of protection than ours? Or Sister Single with 3 kids? Even if I get tipped of by a friendly or family elder, what is the procedure to alert everybody that so and so is a child molestor? Is it all done on a nod and a wink? Also my conscience will not allow me to prevent my child receiving medical care that today is banned by the WTS but tomorrow might be permissible. Or let me put this another way. What is the biblical basis for the blood fraction policy? <emphasis on fraction> Until I can see significant change to those 2 issues I can't feel that being affiliated with the JW's is in the best interests of the children.

Hope that ramble makes sense and gives you some ideas - your conscience and the present safety of your children cannot be explained away by light getting brighter or the other usual thought stoppers...

iamwhoiam

If you think you will be disfellowshipped, would it just be easier for you to beat them to the punch and turn in a letter stating "effective immediately, i am no longer one of jehovah's witnesses" ? You don't even have to give an explanation...just sign it. Keep your feelings limited to yourself and this forum...for your family's sake. Time is on your side..they may come around one day. Just make sure they know you respect thier beliefs and that you love them no matter what. And if they try to tread on you, tell them to respect the decision you made for yourself. If you keep doing this, they will begin to see that even though you are not a "jw believer", you still love them unconditionally and that the org does not.

Just a perspective

00DAD

I agree with wheres caleb? that "The only power they have over you is the power that you choose to give them."

However, if your wife is going to choose loyalty to the WTBTS over you, then you have a serious problem.

00DAD

WBF, since it sounds like you're NOT meeting with them I'll hold off on posting my thoughts on RECORDING any meetings, but if that changes let me know. There are some things you should keep in mind on that subject. BTW, have you ever served as an elder?

That being said, I was reviewing some things from the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book, (the latest Elders' Manual), and came across these relevant points:

#38. "If wrongdoing has not been established but serious questions have been raised, the body of elders should appoint two elders to investigate the matter promptly. For example, there may be just one witness. If so, it would be loving for the witness first to confront the accused and encourage him to take the initiative to approach the elders." - p. 72,

This speaks to why they asked you to meet at the KH. It also addresses the suggestions made above about the Matthew 5 and 18 approach. The next point addresses WHY it is a really good idea to avoid the meeting entirely if at all possible and also the importance of getting your wife and kids on board with at least having a unified position in relation to the elders:

#39. If the accused denies the accusation , the investigating elders should try to arrange a meeting with him and the accuser together. ... If the accuser or the accused is unwilling to meet with the elders or if the accused continues to deny the accusation of a single witness and the wrongdoing is not established, the elders will leave matters in Jehovah's hands. ... Additional evidence may later come to light to establish matters.

Don't give them any "additional evidence"!

Daniel

Morbidzbaby

I agree with 00DAD... It's a problem if she will choose the org over you...however, seeing as you said she DOESN'T want to see you DF'ed, I don't think you have to cut down that bridge before you've even come to it. It's something to keep in the back of your mind, but don't obsess over it.

Refusing to even accept their phone calls or welcome them in when they drop by unexpectedly is always a good idea. You are under no obligation to "entertain" these men in your home. Whenever they would come by when I was home, I would either not answer the door, or if they caught me off guard, I'd feign being incredibly busy and just give a quick "Sorry, can't talk now, got a TON of stuff going on...". If they try to pin you down on a day and time to meet, be non-commital. In other words, you're SO BUSY, you don't know WHAT your schedule is going to look like in the coming weeks/months, so you can't commit to anything. If you feel you need to meet with them in the meanwhile, you'll give them a call, and thanks for stopping by, have a good day.

Also realizing that in my last post, I spelled "submissive" wrong...must've been tired LOL.

curiouscynic

00DAD

BTW, having doubts is NOT a matter warranting judicial action. Only if it gets to the point of "Deliberately spreading teachings contrary to Bible truth as taught by Jehovah's Witnesses" could it be construed as apostasy according to the WTBTS's current directions for elders.

For a current example, the recent Circuit Assembly program contained a skit where one brother is confused and has doubts about the new "overlapping generations" teaching. He is "straightened out" by another brother. He is NOT hauled in to a Judicial Committee meeting and forced to recant or be disfellowshipped for apostasy.

Consider these points from the "Shepherd the Flock of God" book:

Any with sincere doubts should be helped. Firm, loving counsel should be given. - p. 65
Alert, loving shepherds will detect symptoms of spiritual unsteadiness in others and then act decisively to help them before the problems escalate into serious sins. (Gal. 6:1, 2) Symptoms of spiritual fatigue include: … harboring serious and lingering doubts; neglecting association at congregation meetings …" - p. 48
- Emphasis added to both quotes

curiouscynic

Sorry for the blank post. I an be retarded.

I had written something along the lines of, I'm a little confused about all the panic. It sounds like Wannabe is pretty deep in the organization. The folks in his congregation are obviously going to try and "support" him and help strengthen him to righteousness, blah blah blah. But why all the assumptions about there being sinister ulterior motives? "Something smells fishy" and they're trying to "get something on you" and all that is a little silly, don't you think? From their perspective they're trying to help him, not kick him out.

Regardless... I've never heard of a congregation that wouldn't allow someone to quietly slip away. It's more complicated for Wannabe because his wife and kids want to continue going to meetings. Hopefully they join him at some point.

00DAD

curiouscynic, oh you poor, sweet, wonderfully naive person! You've apparently been fortunate enough to not see the sinister, dark reality of many, many BOEs. Bless your ignorance!!!

The "panic" you observed is the appropriate response from many of us who have experienced "The Truth" they way it really is, not the way it should be.

3rdgen

00Dad, Knows what he is talking about. He understands "Theocratic Procedure". Since my almost 60 years affiliation, (my father was a PO, uncle CO, most all other male realatives Elders, married twice to Elders, member of 14 congregations in both cities and small towns) I've seen a lot. One must always remember that these men are human and usually captive to the cult. They feel compelled to do what they THINK is BEST for the ORGAZATION NOT the INDIVIDUAL. The latest WTs disclose the attitude of the administration which is: Apostacy must be DECISIVELY ROOTED OUT!!! Doubts, of course ,LEAD to apostacy in their eyes. THerefore, while they may make an attempt to "readjust" a doubter, IF they don't think they have succeded 100% There is strong pressure on elders to "protect the congregation". This can't be overstressed! Asking to meet formally at the hall is step #1 in the judicial prosess. If they don't like what they hear, in other words, you don't RECANT the doubts after hearing their lecture, they can and usually will eventually disfellowship. However, they can't start the process if you don't meet in the 1st place. Thats the "Truth" as it really is. Even if your Elders WANT to "snatch you from the fire", They still have their ORDERS which are often in secret letters the "flock" never sees.

the elders want to meet with me tomorrow

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