the elders want to meet with me tomorrow (page 13)

00DAD

I expect we can all agree that there are some reasonable, well-meaning elders out there. This is in spite of the WTBTS's medieval policies, certainly not because of it.

However, most elders are pretty much "Company Men" when it comes to judicial matters. If they don't start out that way, they become that way or they quit, resign, get removed or whatever. That's just the way it is.

The implied concern with WBF's original post is the fear that the elders are looking for something for which he could be disfellowshipped, specifically in this case "apostasy" as defined by the WTBTS.

He confirms this in his follow-up comments when he acknowledges expressing dissenting points of view to his wife. He stated, "if they [the elders] question my wife and kids they will know that I no longer view the JW's as God's Organization." He also added, "She most definately is not on my side in this matter." and said that as far as she is concerned what he is "doing to the family is reprehensible". This is a real problem, or at least has the potential to become one.

curiouscynic, maybe you haven't been keeping up with the latest WT rhetoric, but it's become pretty volatile and hostile towards any dissension or criticism of the Governing Body. If someone is in a congregation with anything less than sympathetic elders, they have much to fear. This is particularly true if the family is not on the same page regarding how they currently view the organization and its teachings.

I'm getting the feeling CC that you haven't really read through the complete thread before weighing in with your comments.

In light of the fact that WBF's wife is not on board with him and the fact that the Society is taking an increasingly hard line with dissenters he has good reason to be concerned for his family.

curiouscynic

00DAD-- I get what you're saying. I never suggested that the WTBTS is in the business of cranking out sensible thinkers. But I've had little experience with "company men." I've had a LOT of experience with regular dudes who really don't have a f**king clue what they're doing. Some are hate-filled pr*cks on a power trip, and many are just trying to do what they have been convinced is God's will. I have found those posting in this thread quite similarly.

The OPs best course of action is not to panic. He admitted to being a little paranoid and making much ado about nothing in the past. The men who want to question him are men he's known for years. This is an advantage to him. If his case is like the MANY others I have known, he will go to them, tell them that he's working hard to provide for his family, the pressures of the system of things are weighing heavily on him, he appreciates their concern for him and his family and ask that they give him some space. At the very least that'll buy him some time to hopefully sort some things out with his wife.

Because ultimately, the man's biggest problem is that he and the most important person in his life (other than his children) disagree on a point that she feels is fundamental to her continued existence. And yet people want to focus on what the ELDERS are going to DO TO HIM?? Nonsense. His priority is to determine on what level his wife and family will accept him as an unbeliever, or something similar.

00DAD

curiouscynic: Agreed, WBF does not need to panic. Just prepare himself and consider his options. I also agree that his priority needs to be his wife and kids. The nutty thing about this religion is that it has a habit of getting us off-balance and to lose focus of what are REAL priorities are and should be.

That being said, I'm not in total agreement with your assessment about how he talks to the elders, or even if he should at all. The fact that he's known them for years is an advantage, you're obviously right about that. But he needs to keep in mind that when push comes to shove, it is more than likely that their loyalty will be to the WTBTS and NOT to him. I know in my case when I was having doubts about the organization and difficulties in my marriage I went to two of my best friends for help and advice. They also happened to be congregation elders. In less than 48 hours they decided I should be disfellowshipped. (Of course there was the 7 day waiting period, but I'm referring to their decision).

In the 2 1/2 years since that time, not one of these so-called friends has done a damn thing to help me, or even to see if I'm interested in returning. According to my 17 year old son that is still in, they've not done anything to help him or his mother. (She and I were not on the same page regarding the GB similarly to WBF.)

These elders think they're being loyal to God by following the WT's ridiculous judicial procedures with no regard to the destructive consequences their actions have on the individuals and their families involved.

I have few regrets in life. Going to the elders for the help is clearly one of the biggest mistakes I ever made in my life. It is probably the biggest.

curiouscynic

I don't know your specific situation 00DAD, I'm sorry that you didn't get what you needed out of the men that you considered friends. My opinion is that Wannabe would be making a huge mistake by allowing his wife to be his spokesperson in the congregation. At this point, they are likely trying to "help" him, not trying to push him out. His wife disagrees with his position. She's lost her spiritual head and must now rely on the congregation for guidance... you see what I'm saying here? Wannabe needs to speak for himself. He has no choice because if he doesn't, his wife might do it for him. His goal is no doubt to transition out of the organization without losing his family. Elders are just human beings, sure some are a$$holes, but for the most part they have hearts that can be appealed to.

Perhaps I am naive, as you suggest. But I've done it myself, and I've seen it done by others. "I need some space. And man to man, I would appreciate you coming to me with your questions and not speaking to my wife or children on these matters."

00DAD

CC: Yes, (don't know if you've taken the time to read all the comments on this thread, but) reminding the elders of the headship principle is one of the strategies that has been suggested to help WBF in this situation. As long as he is "in good standing" the elders are usurping this arrangement by talking to the wife or kids without his permission.

Also, one thing that he does NOT know is if this is a "shepherding call" or if it's two elders on an "investigation." WBF has made it clear he doesn't know which, but the fact that the elders asked him to come to the KH rather than at his home suggests it's the latter. Depending on which it is, the situation should be handled differently.

The collective experience of JWN members is that Faders have generally had better success ACCEPTING "shepherding calls" and AVOIDING "Investigation" meetings.

Your mileage may vary.

wannabefree

a third elder is making attempts to set up a one-on-one with me

I've known this man 15 years, a good man, he has never made such an attempt in the past

... on a side note, I received my voter's registration card

OUTLAW

a third elder is making attempts to set up a one-on-one with me

I've known this man 15 years, a good man, he has never made such an attempt in the past..

And..

He`ll report back to the others..

It`s a set up..

...................... ...OUTLAW

00DAD

WBF: A 1-on-1 could be good. At this point it may be advantageous to take a meeting, find out what's on their mind. Is is just a "shepherding call" or are they fishing. By definition, an elder by himself can NOT be on an assigned "investigation" from the BOE. (Please read my #906 above if you already haven't).

The only downside is that, if you say something that can be construed as "apostate", he could be the second witness against you. The fact that you've known him 15 years and think he's a "good man" is in your favor. The fact that he's never made such an attempt before is ... interesting. You've already gotten a lot of really good advice regarding what to say and what not to say should you agree to meet with any of the elders. Be careful.

BTW, Were you ever an elder? I get the feeling you weren't. If you answered this already, I must've missed it.

wannabefree

the fact that the elders asked him to come to the KH rather than at his home suggests it's the latter

The first time this was requested a few months back they weren't taking no for an answer. I suspected it was more of a fishing expedition the way it was presented to me. I told them I would have to check with my wife and family and get back to them ... I said we all can use encouragement ... that is when I was told ... "no, this is just you, we will meet at the Kingdom Hall"

00DAD

"no, this is just you, we will meet at the Kingdom Hall"

This is NOT a shepherding call, definitely not.

the elders want to meet with me tomorrow

Share this