Nice guys left in the cold

by Elsewhere 72 Replies latest social relationships

• 

  LDH

  I recommend the nice bastard or bitch approach.

  My best friend can't figure out why she's not married; been engaged 3 times and treats the men like kings. She is entirely TOO nice to them, does everything--wash clothes, cooks etc and this chick is not a slacker. She owns her own business.

  She's like you Lilacs. I can tell you also fawn all over your love interest, no insult intended. Then she can't figure out why they're not doing the same for her.

  I'm like, ummmmmmmm, why buy the cow kind of thing. (NO I'm not saying women are cows before anyone gets started).

  I told her to stop being so nice, she will have PLENTY of time to do those mothering, domestic type chores once she's married, ha ha. (Ask me how I know. [8>] )

  NO MORE giving till you bleed to these bastards.

  I remember when I first met my husband, it was at work (like you TR). Well I lost my job shortly thereafter for dating him and I was planning to go back to my home. (I was there on outsourced job assignment). When I told him, he said something like,"OH no don't go. I'll do whatever if you just stay." So I handed him a stack of bills that needed paying, and said in my bitchiest voice, "Well prove it." Of course, he paid them immediately. Poor guy. He's still paying 7 years later.

  Heh heh, mind you I'd never so much as let a man pay for a drink for me and certainly never let any of them pay bills. But, when you meet someone with potential to be a marriage mate, I say make em prove it.

  Yes I got a nice guy, but like TYYDYY said, on some days he is also a jackass. Just like me, I'm super nice but piss me off and watch what happens.

  Stop giving it away, Lilacs girl. And you too Gil.

  Lisa
  Got hers Class
• 

  Billygoat

  I can't speak for all women, of course, but I think many women are like this.

  I grew up in an abusive household. I had very low self-esteem. My father constantly berated me, physically and emotionally beat me down. When I finally had the courage to leave he told me this:

  "You will never amount to anything in this world without me. You are nothing and never will be."

  For years after that I dated men that were like my dad. Men that took advantage of me, beat me, emotionally neglected me, stole my money, slept around on me. And I stayed with them...even after I knew they were jerks. Why? Because I understood that lifestyle. It was comfortable. I knew what to expect. I didn't like it and I knew there was something better - I just didn't think I was ever worthy enough for it. It was out of my league.

  It took years of therapy and tons of understanding friends that helped me realize it wasn't out of my league. It WAS within my reach to have a great guy! It tooks years to get my self-esteem up to the point of not putting up with abuse and bullshit.

  But I've also realized that even when you have a great guy (which I do!) not all is perfect. And if a girl is expecting her guy to be the protective galiant Perfect Prince Charming from her childhood dreams...she's gonna be disappointed at one point or another. It's never gonna happen. But when you weigh the good and bad on a scale, what comes out heavier? Hopefully the good!

  Andi
• 

  LDH

  But I've also realized that even when you have a great guy (which I do!) not all is perfect

  SO TRUE Andi! There's a great book, called "Now that I'm married, why isn't everything perfect?" which I'd recommend esp for singles. You'll get a real idea of what married life is like.

  Especially true for girls who grow up in the idealistic world of the JW where you are told over and over that The Corporation Jehovah is the most important thing. And their pablum books like "Making the most of Family life" that really don't discuss real world situations!

  I mean, how many of those illustrations have you seen of the husband with his wife at his knees as they study the publications Bible? [8>] Yeah that's the ticket!

  Between playing with Barbie and watching Cinderella, is it any wonder our young girls grow up expecting to marry Prince Charming and live happily ever after?!?!

  Lisa
  Never let her daughter play with Barbies Class
• 

  Billygoat

  Lisa,

  Never let her daughter play with Barbies Class

  Hahaha! I love this!

  Andi
• 

  WildHorses

  In other words, you have to be cruel to be kind

  I don't want someone in my life I can live with. I want someone in my life I can't live without.
• 

  2SYN

  K, I get everything here, except for one thing: What is the definition of a NICE GUY, a JERK, and a BAD BOY???

  I seem to be confusing the two a bit.

  What the hell? Will the woman here please explain?

  Anyway, onto my comment: I think I should stop treating chiqz like princesses, because they usually just make me run around behind them & stuff. That is, the ones who think I'm not gay. THOSE ARE RARE! People tell me I look gay (I mean, even ppl on this board said so...) and I really couldn't give a flying, but it does mean I get laid less, damnit. I'm not the kind of guy who'll stick his hand up a woman's skirt ten minutes after meeting her. I prefer building up to the final act slowly, tenderly - and I get this feeling that most woman just find this boring, but I feel like it's CRASS and DUMB when I try out rapid seduction techniques. It just seems so cheap to me, you know?

  I've had sex with quite a few ppl, and I find that it usually ruins our relationship shortly afterwards, so now I just screw around and refuse it.

  Oh - there's one thing you must never, ever do as a man - refuse a woman sex. I've done this to a few woman, and they've cried, they've stomped off in a boiling rage, they've called me gay (this is what happens the most) etc etc. I know this one Grrl who seriously has the hots for me, but because my best bud really likes her, and my policy is "hands off friend's crush" (since I nearly lost his friendship over a similiar thing long ago), I keep perfectly neutral around her. So she comes and sits on my lap one evening and starts wiggling her ass around. I just sit there and look at her, doing nothing (ARGH) (BTW this is an extremely good-lookig woman!) and she got SO pissed off with me! For the rest of the evening she was making all these comments about how she thinks I'm gay and stuff.

  So tell me ladies - what do you feel like when a man doesn't wanna do the horizontal slip 'n slide? You get really pissed off, don't you? Well, try being a man for a few years and see what it's like always having to ask for it! It totally sucks!

  Sorry about the rant, I needed to clear my head and warm up my fingers in preparation for a night of hard coding... Regards to all, and Gilwarrior, I agree with you!

  The earlier in the forenoon you take the sun bath, the greater will be the beneficial effect, because you get more of the ultra-violet rays, which are healing. - The Golden Age
• 

  Elsewhere

  Damn! This tread opened up a can of worms! I would really like to see a woman’s response to what 2SYN said.

  2SYN, you're right! We are the ones who have to pursue and the women are usually the ones who "choose" to have sex. Turn the tables around and look out! Pissed off Bitch Alert!

  (Sorry to all of the kind women out there - we men are just venting right now )

  Believe in yourself, not mythology.
  <x ><
• 

  seven006

  I was going to stay out of this thread becuse I usually do not get into these relationship topics but for some reason I keep getting sucked back into it. It is sad to say but most of you are right. A lot of women do want nice guys but they want the nice guys to take care of them long enough for them to find the next bad boy to grab on to. There is an old saying that I have always gotten a big kick out of "women are like monkeys, they want to have a firm grasp on the next branch before they let go of the one they just swung from." I know I am going to catch a lot of shit for saying that but in my experience I found this to be very true.

  I have been on both ends of the " nice guy, bad boy" scale. I spent many years as the bad boy and a few as the nice guy. The nice guy times were definitely the worst of the two. The bad boy times were not as fulfilling or meaningful but they were a hell of a lot more fun. I have never treated women bad or have been intentionally cruel to them but it is absolutely true that the ones who I did not treat as well and didn't pay as much attention to I couldn't get rid of. The ones I treated like queens and was the perfect boyfriend and nice guy ended up going after another bad boy like I was when we first met. It is confusing as hell and it's stupid.

  Lilacs is right, "it's all a game" and I am now at a point in my life that I refuse to play it. I hate dating and no longer find any enjoyment with it at all. I run like hell if the word marr......marra......marriag....you know, "that word" is brought up. I now see "that word" as something that only brings the state government into a relationship. When I divorced my ex wife I came to a realization that a person does not own their kids or their own life but the state does. They can tell you exactly how to live and what you can live on and where just because you once loved someone and decided to have kids with them. I have such a hatred for state government when it comes to this thing that it has effected my whole outlook look on relationships. Iv lost homes, cars, savings, stocks, businesses, etc., after being married twice. My ex wife ended up in a situation like she had just won the lottery. It sucks!

  When I was first divorced fifteen years ago I dated a lot of women. Most wanted a long term relationship with kids and the whole live forever together thing. Once "that word" came up I turned into an asshole and ended the relationship. I hurt some very nice people because of it and I hated doing that and feel like an ass because of it. Now that I am older the women that I have dated have had their own kids and once they see how great I treat my sons they want me as a daddy for their kids. I have never had problems with that because I love kids and I treat their kids like my own and show them unconditional love. Once that happens I fall back into the "nice guy" category again and the women no longer see me as the rebel bad boy they thought I was and they loose interest and go out searching for another bad boy. It is so fucking stupid. It has now gotten to the point that when a break up happens it's her kids that are the ones who loose the most. My last relationship has been over for over two years and her kids still call me and want to see me. They hate the guy she is with now and they talk about how great our family was when we all lived together. It tears my heart out and I really miss those little kids.

  I have finally come to the decision that I am no longer interested in dating at all. I have not had a relationship in over two years and I am very happy being alone. I no longer feel that I need a woman in my life to be happy. I catch a lot of shit from my many women friends for not wanting to date them or meet and date any of their friends. Every married couple that I have as friends the wife is always trying to set me up with someone and I hate that. I have finally quit hanging out with my married friends. For some reason people cannot deal with the fact that I want to stay single and I want to be alone. They think that it is unnatural for a person not to want a mate. Because I am kind and very understanding person and have a lot of women friends, I have even been accused of being gay because I do not date and that REALLY pisses me off.

  I have been told that I could have anyone I want and it bugs the hell out of people when I tell them I do not want anyone. I don't hate women at all in fact quite the opposite I have several women friends who are very attractive, very intelligent and I have a lot of respect for, I just do not want to date them. I am no longer interested in having a woman as a good friend and then because it turns into a relationship and then ends, I loose another good friend. I miss several of the women I have had relationship with because we were such good friends. They end up in a relationship with another guy and he has a problem with them talking to me and I loose a good friendship just because she is a woman and we use to date. Guys can be so damn jealous and so damn insecure, it is such a stupid little game and I have grown to hate it.

  Well, that's my story and I'm sticking to it. I hope all of you that are looking find that right person someday. And to all you women who say you want a nice guy, don't hold on to him while to are looking for the next bad boy, you are going to loose in the end and if you have kids, they will loose too.

  Take care all of you, and good luck.

  Dave
• 

  LDH

  I agree, men face rejection vis a vis sex from they time they are in their late teens.Therefore, they are much better at dealing with the sex/rejection topic than are women.

  It appears society has convinced us that men want sex far more often than women do. I believe this is true if that woman is unhappy in her relationship. However, in a marriage or relationship that is stable and content, I believe each person's desire is about equal. At least in my case.

  I hope this will change as our society continues to allow women to express their sexuality without being labelled "Whore".

  Men don't have to deal with having a period or ovulating etc. which can affect your desire or ability to have sex.

  So for one, men stop complaining when your woman CAN'T or DOESN'T want to. That way, she won't resent you. Pressuring someone for sex NEVER equals good sex.

  Also it seems many men miss the clues that women send their way as regards sex. Therefore, unless the woman physically grabs the man's penis and says "I want sex NOW, ugga ugga," in cave woman style, the man misses it. LOL.

  I would recommend getting in tune with your partner or finding a partner whose desire matches yours. This is also a problem for many women, not just men.

  Lisa
  Empathetic Class
• 

  Billygoat

  Who is it that says:

  Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.

  When it comes to sex, I can definitely see this. I agree with Lisa. Men are probably more used to having been rejected, so it's not that big of an issue. But another thing to think about is that men and women usually look at sex differently. Women have a tendency to relate sex to love. If a guy doesn't want to have sex with them, they start thinking: What's wrong with me? Am I not desirable? Does he not love me? Have I been wrong about the status of our relationship? I'm not saying this is right, but if they feel "scorned" or turned away, they get angry. It's hard for them not to take it personally.

  Just my two cents,
  Andi