Can you be in Love with two persons? My Dilemma...
by Intel 79 Replies latest jw experiences
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tornapart
Intel.. you've had some great advice given you and I can't add too much. But your GF sounds like a wonderful girl. She's willing to let you go for your happiness. Will you be happy without her? If you let your ex-wife go will she take your child away from you again? If you got back with your ex-wife will you be able to forget your GF? And visa versa. Maybe you should separate from both of them for a while and give yourself some 'alone' time to consider all these questions that are going around and around your head.
I do think you can be in love with more than one person but they are different types of love. The love you have for your ex-wife involves many years together, familiarity and intimate knowledge whereas the love you have for your GF is fresh and new and wonderful.
I really hope you can see your way through this dilemma!!
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Terry
Being "in love" doesn't amount to a bucket of warm spit unless you've got a core of ethical principles you operate from in your dealings with others.
Does that sound too lofty?
Let me break it down a bit.
What YOU feel is only partially important when OTHER people are involved.
In other words, your "feelings" are just not as important as the IMPACT on the other two people.
Imagine a very peaceful lake. The water is clear, smooth and peaceful.
Toss one small stone into that pond.
What happens?
The ripples widen out from that brief interruption growing larger and larger until EVERY SHORE has been affected.
That is YOU.
Feelings and emotions aren't the CAUSE of anything.
They are the RESULT of something.
Identify the cause. The cause of feelings is your VALUE system.
If your values are clearly defined and ethically reasoned, then, the result will be manageable and positive.
If you are confused about your feelings it is an admission.
Admission of what? Your VALUES are confused and not based on rational, ethical and logical thinking.
The times in my life when I screwed up my relationships was when MY FEELINGS seemed powerful and important to me and I was
operating solely in regard to that alone.
What I SHOULD HAVE DONE (and didn't know how to do) was examine my VALUES concerning what is ethical, moral, logical, fair and open.
Facts are neutral. Fact-based values create personal VIRTUE.
Keep this list with you at all times and see how often you DECIDE things based on personal VIRTUE.
Justice=getting what you deserve and earn and NOT getting what you don't.
Courage=total commitment to doing the right thing regardless of the personal cost to yourself
Compassion=deep regard to the impact of your actions on the lives of others
Strength=profound and energetic response when something must be resolved
Hope=positive mental attitude backed by long term strategy to accomplish your goals
Humility=objective attitude that your own desires are just not as important to others well-being as they seem to yourself
Integrity=your actions always match your values without any contradiction (You walk the walk, not just talk the talk.)
Resolve=keeping your choices intentional rather than slip sliding into default. Mean what you say, do what you must using value based choices.
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tornapart
Terry.. that is an excellent response, and I think I will take on board what you have said myself. Those are very insightful and wise words.
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JustThatGirl007
I've been thinking about this since you posted yesterday. I have some questions for you.
1) Are you still in love with your wife or are you reminiscing?
2) Are you in love with your wife or are you in love with the idea of what could have been?
3) When your mind wanders, where does it go? Who comes to mind?
4) When you see yourself in the future, who is with you? First person that comes to mind.
It's been said that if you fall in love with 2 people, pick the 2nd one because if you really loved the first, you wouldn't have fallen in love with the 2nd.
I do not quite believe that to be true. I DO, however, believe that polyamory is real and legit. However, if the significant others in your life are not of that mindset, then you can not truly be poly. Not that you aren't, but that because they are not ok with it, you can not practice it. If you do, you lose them both. Trust me when I tell you that it's a no-win situation.
You have a decision to make. I hope it's the best one for everyone involved.
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Morbidzbaby
*whew* Lots of stuff to think about here. You've been given some great advice thus far. I can only give you experience...both mine and my boyfriend's. Maybe it will help, maybe it won't. Maybe it will give you something to think about, maybe it won't.
First, my experience:
I was separated from my ex and had taken up with a boyfriend. We didn't live together, but we were contantly talking, texting, etc. I felt like I was SO IN LOVE with this man! He was older than me by 8 years, he showed me parts of myself that I didn't know existed. When I thought of my future, he was in it. I was SO SURE he was what I was looking for! At one point, my ex asked me to come back...begged me, really. We have children, he had custody, and a part of me thought maybe I should...for the kids. Endure his mental, emotional, and verbal abuses, his manipulations...for the kids. He asked me several times. He made no promises to change. I came clean and told him that I had done some sexual things with this guy. He took a couple of days and decided to divorce me...with the promise that we could date each other again and possibly get remarried, but that for now we would both be free to "find ourselves". At this point, I had already broken up with the other man and begged my ex not to do this. The truth was, I was SCARED. I was afraid to be on my own completely, to have to start over... But in my heart, I knew WHY I had taken up with the other guy. I didn't want my ex anymore. In my heart, I was so sure I didn't want him that I did the one thing that would have severed my ties with him for good...and then I TOLD HIM that I did it so that he WOULD divorce me. This begging, this display of weakness on my part, was simply "buyer's remorse" and it only lasted a couple of days. After that, the divorce was done, and a few weeks later my ex remarried. So it seems he already had something in the works and was confused himself UNTIL I gave him the information he needed to make a clean break according to the Watchtower. He still has the children, they are raising them as JW's, and she gives me hell every chance she gets. They also try to badger me into giving up my parental rights and letting her adopt my kids. HOWEVER, my children are not being raised with 2 parents under the same roof that hate each other. Eventually, our marriage would have ended anyway...whether I got back with him or not.
Now, my boyfriend's experience:
He was physically separated from his wife for about 6 months...she then asked to come back and live with him because she basically burned all her bridges and couldn't keep a job and got evicted. For the good of his daughter, he let her come back, but it was understood there was no relationship. She was there until tax time, she'd get half the tax return, and move out. She did. She was gone for another 6 months before I moved in. So they were technically not a couple for a year, but they weren't even sleeping in the same room for a year before that and were both seeing other people. A few weeks after I got here, she found out he had a serious girlfriend who moved in with him. Now, she had moved back home...18 hours away...and took their daughter with her. All of a sudden, she's lost her job again, she has no money, no food, can't stay with friends, no one will help her and "I still love you, I was so confused and angry, and I want to come home...please let us come home!". He told her no. He also told her that if she couldn't take care of their daughter, that he would come and get her and bring her home and WE would take care of her. He told her he has a wonderful woman who meets every one of his needs, he's happy, and that I would take care of their daughter as if she were my own. She got upset, self-pitying ("Oh I bet she WOULD be a better mother than me...ANYONE is a better mother than me!"), and then angry at him. He basically told her outright that while they had some good times and some fond memories, there was a lot of bad...and he wasn't prepared to go back to that.
I have a friend who separated from his wife for a year, found a really great woman, and was having a wonderfu relationship with her. His wife asked to have one more try for the sake of the kids (3 kids that aren't even bilogically his and who have their father in their life). He decided to break up with the new lady and went back to his wife. He has been NOTHING BUT MISERABLE. He has a lot of regrets. And now he's stuck because he feels guilty for losing the feelings he thought he had for her.
The bottom line is this: A part of you will always love your ex. She is the mother of your child, you have a long history together where you enjoyed each other's company and were friends. Your love should have deepened and matured to the point that if you changed your mind about religious beliefs or anything else for that matter, she would have been by your side supporting you and it wouldn't have made a dent in your relationship, let alone broken it beyond repair to the point that she took your baby away. The fact is, she knows the CULT you. You know the CULT her. You don't love the REAL person she is because SHE doesn't even know who she is at this point. And to be honest, neither do you know who YOU really are. It takes time.
Statistically, it takes 6 months to heal for every 1 year that you were married. You should be ready to get into a real healthy relationship in 9 years by that math lol. Some people take longer, some people are ready sooner. The important thing is not to jump into a serious relationship too soon for YOU. It's not fair to you and it's not fair to the person you're dating. I dated, had one-nighters, figured out WHO I AM and WHAT I WANT in a partner. It was almost 3 years before I finally decided that a serious relationship was something I was ready for.
So, I would say to break it off with both. You're clearly not ready for a serious relationship with your young lady...and she deserves better at her age than being strung along waiting for you to make up your mind. Your love for your ex is based, not on true affection for who she is, but on friendship and the history of who she WAS...and the fact that you have a child together. You can love your daughter without being IN LOVE with her mother. You can be a father without being in a potentially toxic relationship with the mother. You don't know if she will definitely leave the JW's. You don't know if the person she will become WITHOUT the JW's is someone you could love. Nor does she know whether the person YOU will become in the future is someone SHE could love. It's a lot to gamble when the deck isn't stacked in your favor. A child needs 2 parents who love and support them. You can give your child that without actually being married to her mother.
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Intel
Morbidzbaby, JustThatGirl007 and Terry: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!
Terry: you gave some serious stuff to chew on mate! What you wrote up is not only of value in my particular relationship-mess, but in general Life. Yes, I have to ask myself what my newfound Values are...I got out of the Borg and have developed a few thoughts, but not the profound, rock-foundation to build my Life upon.
JustThatGirl007: Your questions....well, they hit home! I don't even know how to thank you. Especially No. 2 hit home and No. 4: I can't answer that clearly....all the emotional pressure from the last weeks has numbed my mind. No. 1: Lots and lots of reminiscing - definitely and feeling sorry for her. Today I've had that long conversation with my girlfriend about these feelings and that I feel like a total failure as a father, because I'm not there with my Baby. She answered that children that have both parents, in a sour relationship will feel more miserable than children that grow up without one of them, but are loved from both.
You all don't know how good it was to open this thread. I was fearful to start this discussion, what would come out of this, how I had to write this stuff up (feeling stupid for the situation I have steered myself) and for facing up to my most inner feelings. You are good friends who treated me with respect and gave me sound, solid advice. Thanks for sharing part of you.
Morbidzbaby: THAT was very, very good to read. It gave me stuff to think and goosebumps, because I could relate to some things you've said. Very, very well written!!! I fear that we will get back together and the relationship is heavily burdened by all of the things that happened. Whilst I was in Bethel, I started to study and read Biology books, Science in General and became an Atheist in the process. My ex wants to get out of the CULT, but this new idea is only weeks old, up until a few weeks ago she would hold onto everything the Borg said. She also told me in one of the recent emails that she will let go of the Borg, but holds on to God, Jesus and the Bible, but can't explain what her ideology is - I don't know where that will lead her...
First decision. My girlfriend had to take care of a few personal things in her home country (we are both from Europe, but from different countries). She decided to handle these things earlier than planned and will therefore leave me for a couple of months, so that I can distance myself from her AND my ex. She thinks that it is better to see whether our Love will hold through the distance and after I did some serious introspection.
I fear what lies ahead...I have to sort many things out (emotionally, mentally). I will "lock" myself into my apartment, before I go out and meet other people, without knowing who I am, who I want to be and to calm down. I feel emotionally drained and have felt physically sick because of this constant inner conflict. It makes me literally sick...
I would like to come back to this thread and ask you "veterans" (in terms of relationships and marriage) a few questions. Share some thoughts. I would thank anyone who can share his/her experience as it helps me to see things from a "birds eye view".
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Intel
@Aussie Oz: I forgot to mention that your post also "hit home" with me, I have the dreadful feeling that my ex will turn against me, that my new, "out-of-the-cult"-personality is NOT what she is expecting or that she is in love with my former-me (all obedient, elder-husband).
Sometimes I feel that I don't want her to suffer more from this, but by my flip-flopping I'm just hurting her more than necessary. Maybe it is wishful-thinking that we can go back where we were, but without the CULT on our backs, but I cannot clearly see that image. It is blurred in my mind. I fear that I want to go back to her because of my Baby, which I miss and makes my heart bleed. My girlfriend says that my Baby will grow, and in time she will start her own Life and I have to ask myself if I will still hold onto the relationship with my ex, once the child is gone.
I wish I wasn't so sensitive. I constantly think about the pain I am causing to others (my ex, my child, my mother who is still a JW and is in a depression because I DA'ed myself), but this IS WRONG, by feeling the imaginary pain of others, I am tearing myself down...and this spirals into depression and sometimes suicidal thoughts! I wished I was more rationale and emotionless about all of this...sometimes being a "cold asshole" would help!!!!! Because of this kind of feelings I stayed in a religion that I hated - far too many years. I wanted - at all costs - to avoid that others felt bad or endured pain because of me.
Now I am in a "no win" situation where I WILL cause pain - either to my ex or my child if I leave them, or to my new wonderful girl if I leave her, or to all of them. But I know that if I have to live a LIE EVER AGAIN, I will continously cause pain to myself... I feel very, very sad because she is leaving and I will have to take a decision - a decision that undoubtedly will cause pain - which I hate.
Does anyone of you had to struggle with the same problem: Always wanting to please others (family, friends) to the point where you neglect yourself? I guess this is one of the main reasons for staying in, or?
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exjehovah
Personally, I would force the hand of your ex-wife before even attempting to get involved with her again. This religion can such a huge hurdle in a relationship, I would not do anything until she left the cult/borg and then tried to start a life. I definitely wouldn't rush into anything. I also think you should level with your current girlfriend and tell her you need some time to figure things out, but don't do it before you have a conclusive game plan for where you are living, etc
It is something you will have to weigh and figure out on your own, but maybe it is best to spend some time away from both women and then figure it out for yourself. No one can tell you the right thing to do because only you know, but try to stay away from the religious component as much as possible and just focus on what you want in your future.
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finally awake
I've been married to Just Ron for 20 years. We had 8 years together before we got sucked into the Borg, and we did everything together - joined at the hip, truly one flesh. I can say with 100% certainty that the Borg puts a wedge between marriage partners and makes it impossible to truly be honest with each other and even with yourself. So now that you are out, it is going to take time to really get to know yourself. She is even more newly out of the Borg. You may find that you are totally incompatible, or you may find that you are like peas in a pod - but you just can't tell at this stage. You need to go really slowly - because any relationship with your ex is just like starting out with a stranger at this point. I am biased toward giving that relationship a chance, because you *are* going to have to deal with her for the rest of your life since you have a kid together, you may as well give it an honest shot with her.