Atheists..... throwing the baby out with the bath water ?

by snare&racket 403 Replies latest jw friends

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  tec

  And again you're trying to duck responsibility for your inaccurate comment... I cannot help what you read into what I say. You specifically said: "They're ALL VARIATIONS OF THE SAME THING...." Then you said: "SOME TRYING HARD TO FOLLOW CHRIST...." So, by your own words, you were lumping in ALL religions... "Religion is the bathwater. Even the bible is the bathwater. Christ and God are the baby. .......Yes, Zid... all are led by men (and women), ..." I ALSO said this:

  However, I was speaking about Christianity, as most of this thread concerns itself with that...

  AND THIS:

  but unless you think another religion out there is led by something other than men (and women), then it probably applies to them as well. But that is not for me to say; that is for them to say.

  I clarified for you that what I meant as the thing common to all of them, making them all variations of the same... was that they are all led by men and women, and so all prone to the mistakes of those men and women.

  I cannot clarify it more than that.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  Qcmbr

  tec - are you saying you aren't led by a man?
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  sizemik

  Q . . . are you sure you want to go there?
• 

  cofty

  Even the bible is the bathwater. - Tec

  So I set the bible aside too. - Tec

  I knew that Christ existed. - Tec

  Without the bible you would have no content to your belief in christ.
• 

  Qcmbr

  I just got the impression that tec was against an organisation led by a man which seems to be the very essence of the christian message, god (male?) , expressed via Jesus (man?) instituting an organisation (kingdom of god) into which we all fit like body parts and have different roles. Denying the organisational aspects of the NT seems to negate all of 'Paul's' teachings and to invalidate the entire OT priesthood / temple structure. Seems like the desire to clarify the relationship as soley through Jesus with no other mediators is to negate god's supposed use of prophets, angels and rigid organisational structure to impart knowledge and sacraments and ....to throw out the baby with the bathwater and end up a lone mystic making it up as they see fit. Which is how this mess presumably started in the first place.
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  AK - Jeff

  Just now saw your thread s&r.

  I could have written your initial post almost word for word to describe my journey since leaving the Watchtower. I am often at a loss as to how these folks who swallow this thing called 'belief' without question, insulting atheists as if we had not done careful 'soul searching' before arriving at the conclusions we have.

  Like you, it was reading and study of the Bible itself, and observation of those who claim to follow it, both here on JWN and in the real world, that reinforced that conclusion.

  I have found the mocking and insults to be amazing for lack of better words. These mockers believe in a God who killed a couple million people in the OT, can't 'inspire' the first 4 chapters of his 'holy word' in harmony [let alone an entire 66 book canon], passively ignores all the horror that daily permeates our world, claims omnipotence yet never acts.

  Not a single one of them can provide the very first shred of 'evidence' and certainly no outright proof of any god. Not one shred! Yet they insist that our denial of evidence and arrival at a conclusion that makes perfect logical sense is 'throwing the baby out with the bathwater'. There is no baby, and there is no bathwater. There never was! How curious that the 'faithful' are faithful to something they cannot provide any external stimulus to demonstrate, yet they are angry at those who point this out.

  Jeff
• 

  designs

  AK- What you don't believe the videos posted of people who have been to heaven and hell.
• 

  tec

  tec - are you saying you aren't led by a man?

  Q . . . are you sure you want to go there? But seriously, all I mean is this: man = mankind (including women) Why follow man (who thinks he knows... and sometimes doesn't care at all) over the Truth, who both knows and cares?

  I just got the impression that tec was against an organisation led by a man which seems to be the very essence of the christian message, god (male?) , expressed via Jesus (man?) instituting an organisation (kingdom of god) into which we all fit like body parts and have

  different roles.

  People led by Christ (the Truth, spirit, son of God) God is spirit. Why would male/female mean anything to him? Even Paul said that there is no male/female in the Lord.

  Denying the organisational aspects of the NT seems to negate all of 'Paul's' teachings and to invalidate the entire OT priesthood / temple structure. Seems like the desire to clarify the relationship as soley through Jesus with no other mediators is to negate god's

  supposed use of prophets, angels and rigid organisational structure to impart knowledge and sacraments and ....to throw out the baby with the bathwater and end up a lone mystic making it up as they see fit. Which is how this mess presumably started in the first

  place.

  The Prophets and the law came before Christ. The organizational structure of the priesthood and sacraments is a shadow of things to come. A visual aid for people who needed to walk by sight. Christ asks that we walk by faith. That the worshippers His Father desires are those who worship in Spirit and in Truth.

  Christ came to fulfill the law. He is greater than the prophets who came before Him; and they pointed toward Him. He is the one to whom God said to listen. He IS the mediator between man and God; the door; the light; the narrow path.

  Peace,

  Tammy
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  tec

  I am often at a loss as to how these folks who swallow this thing called 'belief' without question, insulting atheists as if we had not done careful 'soul searching' before arriving at the conclusions we have.

  And yet, are you not doing the e x act same thing here?

  "folks who swallow this thing called belief without question"

  As if we folks with faith never did any careful soul searching to arrive at the conclusions they have?

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  tec

  Without the bible you would have no content to your belief in christ

  Without someone telling me about Christ (by word of mouth, or word of writings), I would have no content to my belief in Christ. Or a prophet who had the faith to hear the truth and prophesy about a coming Messiah.

  The bible (and people) taught me about Christ. But the bible is not Christ, any more than a photograph is the person in the picture. I would rather get to know the person in the photograph, rather than carry it around and say the photograph is enough for me.

  Peace,

  Tammy