In love with a JW...

by CuriousUK 156 Replies latest social relationships

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Curious---this may have been brought up, I'm behind reading the more current posts, but I just want to give you another warning.

    This man could one day walk away from the Kingdom Hall. You may see this as encouraging and thing the danger has passed. No--not necessarily.

    There is a book called Captive to a Concept. A person can physically walk away, but if in their heart, they still believe, chances are high they will run back. Many things can trigger this. Walking away when you still believe causes a great deal of anxiety in that person. I should know. I did it in the 90's. I hadn't been to a meeting in 2 years, but still jumped at loud sounds or got sick over news reports convinced that Armegeddon had come. I still believed, but I just felt I wasn't living up to the standards. If he is in this category (and it can be very hard to tell) then some of things that can trigger his full-blown return are:

    marriage problems

    death

    illness

    birth of a child

    earthquake

    war

    crime

    financial difficulty

    That list is not exhaustive. Not at all. Anything can send him running back, if he still believes.

    Do you think he would come here? It may open his eyes---but could also backfire. He may think you were sent by Satan to pull him away from Jehovah, and are trying to poison him with apostate thinking. (if he is a believer, he views all of us as more evil than Hitler and tools of Satan. He views our posts as poison that can kill him spiritually.) On the other hand, perhaps he will listen. Sounds like he has an internal battle. Either way, you may have your answer just by posing the question.

    NC

  • CuriousUK
    CuriousUK

    What is the easiest way to persuade him to read Crisis of Conscience without him being immediately suspicious and think I am trying to attack/undermine his beliefs?

    I don't want to go down the line of "If you loved me, you would read it, as I have been reading your material"

  • CuriousUK
    CuriousUK

    Sorry New Chapter, just spotted your post... I am not sure he would come here, and would probably feel uncomfortable that I had even been discussing him (which is why I hopefully haven't given away any clues where he is from).... I wish he could, as just something makes me think he has certain doubts, or he wouldn't be contacting me again at all after such a long time....

  • james_woods
    james_woods
    What is the easiest way to persuade him to read Crisis of Conscience without him being immediately suspicious and think I am trying to attack/undermine his beliefs?

    Let us think about that for a while. I believe I would start out - immediately - by letting him know clearly and simply that you are NEVER going to become a JW. Without going into details.

    Then, if he should ask why, you might have your opening.

    If nothing else, you have been honest with him up front.

  • CuriousUK
    CuriousUK

    This is the last post that I am allowed to make for 17 hours due to the restrictions of being a new member. I will be still be reading and following all your advice and responses, so please bear with me!

    It really has been great hearing from everyone so far

    xx

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    What is the easiest way to persuade him to read Crisis of Conscience without him being immediately suspicious and think I am trying to attack/undermine his beliefs?

    Showing him a copy of CoC or perhaps even mentioning it to him would be like holding up a cross with garlic to a vampire. Unless he is already having some doubts, his eyes will get huge and he will be overcome with fear and trepidation, as he must deal with the realization that YOU have been "apostacized". Tell him someone at work or some relative said YOU MUST READ THIS after they heard you were "dating" a JW. Present any questions as if the workmate/relative wants to know ......this......or .....that......NOT YOU. Only ask questions. Questions that he cannot answer.

    If you decide to attempt to get him to look at it, you had better have a good idea (lie) where you found out about it and got it. If he knows you've been on these websites, he'll probably turn around and run......which overall, may save you making the decision to do that yourself.

    Doc

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    Have you asked the man if he has doubts about his religion being the only true religion?

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    There is no easy way.

    If you think this is worth it and are ready for a long drawn out attempt at releasing his mind, get your hands on this book ...

    http://www.amazon.com/Releasing-Bonds-Empowering-People-Themselves/dp/0967068800

    It will help you understand the process.

    And familiarize yourself with information at www.jwfacts.com on things you can use after reading the above book.

    I work with computers, so the best comparison I can make is that the JW mind is infected with Watchtower malware including hidden rootkits and redirectors. It is a very tangled web. Sometimes a computer is so infected, the best way to fix the problem is to completely erase it's memory and reinstall the operating system ... you don't have that luxury with the mind ... not that you would want that extreme. Not only is his mind infected, so are the minds of his Witness family members, and he will lose them if he leaves the religion. To release him from this is a huge undertaking, and you may never get the entire malware removed, when activated it may just reinstall.

  • DaCheech
    DaCheech

    welcome, and good job researching the stuff before you made a grave error!

    let me tell you a little about myself:

    I wasn't born in this religion, but the buggers got to my mommy and I grew up most of my life in this religion.

    I got married to a JW female, as all other options were out of the question.

    after quite a few happy years and kids, I realized 8-9 years ago that it was a sham!

    failed prophecies, elders' lion-like personalities, dishonesty, crooks in the congo getting away with murder (business dealings with other brothers)....... and etc....

    I have since told my wife of doubts and lies ( now she's pretty libreral, and let's me get away with doing non-witness things with her if you get the hint ). She has told me that If I keep my doubts secret, everything is OK......... but if I get DF'd or leave the witlesses --> she will leave me!

    quite a bit to loose on my side? my kids? not even seeing them get married?

    I say: Run, you seem like finding others is not problematic?

    see ya!

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep

    Hi Curious.

    I'm an unbabtised born-in. I married an Anglican who then converted to JW and raised our kids as JW while never getting around to joining myself.

    Let me make something very clear. Just because someone who has been associated with JW in some way is not baptised, or is disfellowshipped, or sells drugs to school children from the local whorehouse, doesn't mean they are mentally free from this insidious religion. Using emotional blackmail to get him to leave JW for you is not a clever option.

    Until he fully understands that the Watchtower is not what it claims to be, he is damaged goods and is not marriageable material.

    The primary doctrine of the WT, the one that holds them captive, is that Jesus selected the WT, in 1919, to be Jehovah's sole channel of communication to mankind in our day. As long as they believe that, the WT will be forgiven for every mistake, evil, false prophesy, crazy doctrine, lie etc. that you can find to use to convince them to leave.

    Once he realises that you are talking to APOSTATES he should run away and he probably will. Asking him to read any APOSTATE literature, or website, will be counter productive. The WT has warned him what to watch out for and if you stumble over any of the trip wires they have set for him the chances of extracting him take a big dive.

    He has been trained not to listen to opposers, so you must never appear to be opposing.

    He has been trained not to read opposing literature, so don't give him any.

    He has been taught that the WT has the key to your salvation and that if they can't convert you, their killer god will turn you into bird food very soon. Use that to keep him trying to convert you.

    I'll get lazy now and post something I wrote a while ago. It'll give you some idea of how complicated it is to talk sense with a JW.

    Cheers

    Chris

    __________________________

    Ask questions.

    They are trained to teach, so ask questions. Ask in such a way that they feel obligated to answer. They are taught that they have knowledge that is neccessary to survive Armageddon, which is coming soon, and that it is their duty to share it. Use that to your advantage.


    They are there to save you. You have a question. It is your question that is important because if they can't answer it with honesty and integrity, then they will never accomplish their God given mission.

    Remember: You are not there to answer their questions. (They are not interested in your answers except to get you to make a mistake so that they can pounce on it.)

    If you do have to show them something, try to make it something that they have in their own home. Even a dictionary or encyclopedia on their own bookshelf might be regarded with deep suspicion if they think you are an opposer so try to stick to WT literature that they have in their possession or computer and get them to read it to you and comment on it.


    The primary doctrine is that the WT was selected by Jesus, in 1919, to be God's sole channel of communication to mankind in our day. As long as they believe that, the WT has full mind control. This is true even if they are studying, unbaptised, drifted or disfellowshipped. Everything the WT teaches is believed because of that doctrine. If the WT changed a doctrine tomorrow, they would believe the change, even if it is contradicted by the Bible or Jesus or Jehovah himself.

    Your questions should be constructed to steer them towards stating their belief in that doctrine, but try not to put words in their mouths.

    Some sample questions:

    How do you know the WT is better than the Catholics/Evangelicals/Muslems/Mormons/whatever?
    How do you know Jesus selected them?
    When did Jesus select them?
    Why did Jesus select them?
    Can you show me an article that says that, please?
    All the time asking, "How do you know ...?" type questions to steer them where you want them to go.

    If they make a claim about the WT that you know is untrue demand that they prove it, or get them to read, to you, a WT article that contradicts them. NOTE: Do not read it to them!!!!!


    Don't get sidetracked.

    Red herrings are their favorite trick. They are trained to distract you from your subject and are experts at it.

    Rule #1: Don't change the subject.
    Rule #2: Don't let them change the subject.

    Every time you read a disaster story about a conversation with a JW, the JW has had control of the subjects.

    The tricks they use are mostly diversion tactics. They will:

    Talk volumes about a related subject without discussing your question.
    Ask a question about another subject.
    Attack another church or their doctrine.
    Attack your character.
    Attack your motives.

    JWs never stay with a subject that they are uncomfortable with, so, if one tries to change the subject, that is a very good indication that you should stay on that subject. Try to make them feel guilty for attempting to use these tactics on you. Use parallels to religions that they consider to be false if you can. If they have previously denegrated a religion for using the tactics they are using on you, point it out and pour on the guilt for it. Act offended that they should do such a thing to you. Guilt, guilt, guilt.

    If a conversation reaches a stalemate, or one of you needs to go away to do some research, finish the conversation and walk away. Do not start another subject. Do not let them start another subject. They will always want to start another subject because they want to end the conversation feeling as though they have had a 'win' and they can do that if they can pick a subject that they are good at and you are not. It is time to go. Now. You can talk about sport or politics or itchy underclothing, but do not discuss another religious subject.


    Once they have confirmed that they believe their primary doctrine, it is time to ask them how they know that they were selected in the year 1919 .... and that is another subject.  It is an easy subject, but once again, you must know how to control the subject and not get sidetracked.  They know how to take an easy subject and make it sound really complicated, so you must learn control.

    Control, control, control.

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