Think about the Neilsen rating system for TV in America. How many times has a popular show gotten poor ratings and people come up in an outrage over it and saved the show, often to another network? It's a poll.
Hostile to atheists
by d 281 Replies latest members politics
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NewChapter
Okay FHN---but I have also offered a lot of other information on the issue. I'm not sure why it bothers you so much that I do find value in this poll, but whatever. It is just one piece of a bigger puzzle, and I've commented on many things. I will not allow my points to be invalidated because you don't believe in polls. I've certainly given a great deal of other information to support my concern that something disturbing is happening with the religious right getting power.
You kind of accused me of being naive for quoting a stat that Dawkins quoted. You said that he was biased and would use biased stats. I investigated where the stat came from, I showed you with 2 links where is came from, I went directly to the source. Now you say you simply don't believe in polls---so it wasn't a question of bias or intellectual dishonesty on my or Dawkins's part, but that you don't believe in polls. That's okay. I don't believe in god.
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talesin
For anyone who wants to join Burn's Beer Summit,,, peace in our time.
t
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NewChapter
The Reason Rally and Atheism was discussed on Up With Chris Hayes---Dawkins is interviewed in the course of the show---the whole show it at this link.
http://upwithchrishayes.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/03/25/10855251-sundays-show-atheism
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talesin
I saw a lot of photos on my f/b page. Looks like it was peaceful & fun. Lots of music, etc., as well as the get-down-to-business stuff. :D
t
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FlyingHighNow
He says that around 40% of Americans believe that the universe is less than 10,000 years old. If I believed in the concept of sin, I would say the gravest sin that religion is guilty of is holding the masses in utter ignorance.
disclaimer: since some comments are taken personal: I understand that not all religious people believer this. BUT THIS IS 40% OF AMERICANS---and that blame rests solely on the shoulders of religion.
This is what bothers me. And the more I read this statement, the more ridiculous this is. First of all, most Americans come up through the public school system that teaches how old the earth is estimated to be. Second: 40 % of all Americans are not devout, staunch fundamentalist Christians. Religion. Religion isn't made of just fundamentalist Christians. There are Muslims, Buddhists, Hindus, Jews, Native Americans, New Age, Pagans and many other types of religions that are not Christian, represented in the USA. Among Christians, probably the largest denomination would be Roman Catholic. Most Roman Catholics are not fundamentalist. The very strict fundamentalists may not believe in Evolution officially, but it doesn't mean that they all teach that the earth is less than 10,000 years old. And even when they do, it doesn't mean everyone who attends those churches believes as the churches believe. Kids coming up in the public school system get different views and teachings from what they get IF they go to church. I'd like to know the context of Dawkin's statement. Perhaps he really didn't do a lot of thinking on using it either. He is not an American. He has to go to a poll to grab statistics. If he looked into this very deeply, I'm certain he'd have to retract it.
What bothers me is that you think "religion is guilty of is holding the masses in utter ignorance,". How ludicrous is that? We don't live in the times where the masses could not read. We don't live in the times when the Bible was not written in a common language that the masses had available to them. We live in a time when secular science is what is taught in almost every school and university in the country. We live in a time when information about science is freely available on TV, even for people with out cable, on PBS. We have public libraries and internet access. Dawkins quote is naive at best, sensationalistic at worst.
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NewChapter
Dawkins was quoting a gallup poll---so let's be honest here---it is not Dawkins that you believe is naive or sensatinalistic, it is the poll he quoted---he didn't make this up on his own---and you have already said you don't believe in polls---so no sense in continuing to talk about it. I don't believe in the bible, so it would be ridiculous for a person to use the bible to prove god with me---I will not use the poll to discuss anything with you.
I went through the public school system, we learned very little about evolution, but that was just me. Now if a child is living in a home that does not believe in evolution, they are prepared to put up the wall in science class. They will learn how to answer the questions, because they know what will get a good grade for them, but in their own mind they will be highly suspicious of science and not believe what they are learning. That is due to religion. It does not matter what information is available if the mind has been corrupted.
I was a JW. I believed in creation. I did not believe in evolution. I am not a stupid person, and all of the information was available to me. But my approach to the information prevented me from ever seeing the logic or truth in what I was learning about evolution. The fault for that lay with religion, which taught me to disregard evidence and go with faith.
It is sad that this has turned into a discussion that argues how many Americans disbelieve evolution, when the issue that matters is how they are voting and how that affects public policy. I also disagree with your assertion that the largest denomination in America is Catholic---you'll need to support that. I've never heard anything close to such an assertion, and indeed, Kennedy had to face a mostly protestant nation when he was a Catholic running for president. I would look that up myself, but the information would come from polls, and you don't believe in polls, so I will leave it to you to prove it.
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d
Here is a link to the atheist manifesto.
http://www.atheistempire.com/reference/news/other/Lewis,%20Joseph%20-%20An%20Atheist%20Manifesto.pdf
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FlyingHighNow
He is naive about the reality of life in America. Using the poll, which is not a completely, scientifically accurate way of figuring out anything really, is sensationalistic. Someone as highly educated as him should know that.
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FlyingHighNow
At about 10 PM, the night of the 2004 elections, the majority of exit polls done around the country showed John Kerry to be the winner of the presidential elections. I remember how stunned we were when that turned out not to be the case.