Hostile to atheists (page 7)

FlyingHighNow

This is what we discuss when we don't have speakers at Oasis. It can be faith shaking for people who have a staunch idea of what Jesus was.

Ever feel like Jesus has been kidnapped by the Christian Right and discarded by the Secular Left? Saving Jesus Redux is total revision of Living the Question's popular 12-session DVD-based small group exploration of a credible Jesus for the third millennium. New contributors including Brian McLaren, Diana Butler Bass, and Robin Meyers join Marcus Borg, Walter Brueggemann, John Dominic Crossan, Matthew Fox, Amy-Jill Levine, and a host of others for a conversation around the relevance of Jesus for today.

"We're having a culture war and Jesus happens to be one of the weapons tossed about by both sides." --Amy-Jill Levine

View Video Sample http://www.livingthequestions.com/xcart/home.php?cat=471

(Oasis is just that. On Wednesday nights we have dinner together. The Grand Rapids Episcopal Youth Group then breaks off and the children go to their groups and we adults have our thing. We have different people in to discuss things like Alzheimer's disease, Addiction treatment, the homeless, out reach, etc.)

NewChapter

I'm from the secular left---how can I use Jesus as some kind of weapon in a culture war? I just ask that the conservative right stop using him to control me and set policy. It's fine if you believe and want to investigate a different definition of him, but why would that impact someone on the secular left? We don't care about another person's faith until they try to set policy and limit our rights----or when they try to hijack science classes. Jesus is not our weapon. What an odd thing to say. Also odd to comment that the secular left has discarded Jesus. The sentiment seems off---if we don't believe---then have we also discarded unicorns? Do you see the difference? This is not a rejection of Jesus. He just doesn't have significance to us other than how others use him to come after us.

NC

Phizzy

I do not use the label Atheist for myself, as too many people assume too much about your thoughts on matters based on that label.

I call myself a Rationalist/Humanist, that seems to only get a raised eyebrow, not to engender aggression, and usually the conversation has moved on before the person is really sure if that means I am an unbeliever or not.

I have found the Atheists that I meet are pretty laid back about believers as people, but will show in no uncertain terms where those beliefs are wrong if someone tries to present them as truth.

talesin

I have found the Atheists that I meet are pretty laid back about believers as people, but will show in no uncertain terms where those beliefs are wrong if someone tries to present them as truth.

The first part would be me, the second, no. If someone continues to throw dogma at me, I just walk away from the friendship. It's been my experience that debate is a waste of breath.

tal

Patty Cake

My rebellious 16 year old self asked my Bethelite brother to prove to me that God exists. He quoted scripture. I told him that he couldn't use the Bible to prove that God exists. He quoted more scripture. I repeated myself. He paused and then said, "Well, I guess you just have to believe." I thought it would go on longer and stronger, considering where he camped. Very disappointing. I guess I blew it, as i was wanting a birthday gift from him that year. I didn't get my party hat and cake either, or that head on a platter he promised.

NewChapter

The first part would be me, the second, no. If someone continues to throw dogma at me, I just walk away from the friendship. It's been my experience that debate is a waste of breath.

Yes! I can sit with someone, and regardless of their beliefs, we are just fine. I don't seek to bring them over to my 'side', so why would there be a problem? But you're right, if it is someone who starts discussing---with a view to changing me---the only option is to just walk away. They just won't stop, and it's suffocating. I have a neighbor, and we get along absolutely fine. We have many things we could talk about, and used to enjoy just sitting on lawn chairs together. She would occasionally mention her church or beliefs---fine---I'd simply counter with I wasn't a believer, but if it made her happy, all cool. but then she got more involved in her church, and now, she completely disrespects me when I say I don't believe. Now she has the mission to make me see the light, and that's when the relationship get's destroyed.

It really is a respect thing. Some believers just can't accept that an atheist truly does not believe. They somehow think we are simply defective, broken or disillusioned. They have a better way, and if only I would listen and see . . .

The only way to make it stop is to walk away. Of course that will be translated as I don't have tolerance for believers. Untrue. I have believing friends. I have an intolerance for their intolerance---but then I'm sure that would be understood as persecution as I am trying to silence them. *sigh*

Anyone with evangelical leanings makes an awful friend to me.

NC

talesin

It really is a respect thing. Some believers just can't accept that an atheist truly does not believe. They somehow think we are simply defective, broken or disillusioned. They have a better way, and if only I would listen and see . . .

Agreed. I, too, have friends who are believers, but they accept me for who I am, which is a peson who feels no need to share their beliefs. I don't try to convince them there is no dog, and they don't try to 'save' me. Also, we *do* share the same values, which has nothing to do with religious beliefs.

tal

Low-Key Lysmith

I'm from the secular left---how can I use Jesus as some kind of weapon in a culture war? I just ask that the conservative right stop using him to control me and set policy. It's fine if you believe and want to investigate a different definition of him, but why would that impact someone on the secular left? We don't care about another person's faith until they try to set policy and limit our rights----or when they try to hijack science classes. Jesus is not our weapon. What an odd thing to say. Also odd to comment that the secular left has discarded Jesus. The sentiment seems off---if we don't believe---then have we also discarded unicorns? Do you see the difference? This is not a rejection of Jesus. He just doesn't have significance to us other than how others use him to come after us.

I love this paragraph! This is my frustration to the letter. Can I nominate this for Post of the Year? So well said.

NewChapter

Why certainly Low-key. It's something believers do without realizing it---they frame all disagreements within their own worldview. Jesus could never be my weapon because he is not a part of my life. I just find it odd when others insist that we are somehow using their concept of Jesus in our reasoning.

NC

d

I also feel that believers see athiests as depressed and empty and when in fact. I am not depressed, I feel better not believing in God then in Believing in God.I feel that you can accomplish more not believing in God and see yourself as your own master and not at the mercy of a fairytale being.

Hostile to atheists

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