The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly (page 10)

ziddina

Ooooh, brother...

In one breath, Sab claims to accept that

"black widows ...... are beautiful creatures who have evolved just as awesome abilities as us..."

Then, in the SAME post, he claims that these spiders haven't "evolved" a sense of MORALITY, yet?????

Ah, Sab...

Lemme explain something to you...

As mP said above, things that exist on this planet were NOT placed here by some imaginary sky-daddy or specious super-energy sentient entity, just for the profit, pleasure, or alleviation of boredom of we arrogant, self-centered little humans...

WE are JUST as involved in that EVOLVED arms race, as every OTHER EVOLVED form of life on the planet.

We're not above the other critters; we ARE just another critter!!

So.... If that two-year-old child wants to SURVIVE, then he/she'd DAMN well better develop better survival skills - or his/her PARENT had better improve their ability to look after their offspring, if they want their genes successfully passed on to future generations!!!

sabastious

Zid, the spider evolved WITH US and therefore could be considered just as victorious in the game of life. The difference is when the spider destroys a human. That's why the human, who has evolved a sense of morals, whereas the spider has not (with just as much time, if not MORE) gets to choose who lives and who dies.

So.... If that two-year-old child wants to SURVIVE, then he/she'd DAMN well better develop better survival skills - or his/her PARENT had better improve their ability to look after their offspring, if they want their genes successfully passed on to future generations!!!

So the deadly spider aided human evolution, then?

-Sab

ziddina

"One could argue that the fly and the spider have as much right to exist as we do. In a certain light they do, but there is another law of the universe that must be considered higher than such a law of equality.

The law is that you do not take more than you give. A small spider doesn't give enough in of itself to warrent the destruction of a human child. ..."

Yeah, but it happens anyway, doesn't it...

Which means that "law" that you refer to, certainly isn't in effect, is it?

As to your egoist self-centered idea that the spider is less valuable than a human, dude....

Spiders evolved LONG before WE came on the scene... They arose around 420 million years ago... Humans are around 100,000 years old - if you're counting Homo sapien...

Now, approaching this from a theist's viewpoint, which one has been "worked on", longer??? Hmmmm....?????

The OLDER species has had MORE TIME TO FORM. What does THAT say about "god"? WHICH form would "he/it" prefer - the one that "he's/it's" only worked on for a few thousand years, or the one which has been tweaked for over 400 million years???

So, as I said before - YOU may think that the child is "more" important, but to evolution - its eons-long processes - the older species are the more valuable, because they've had more time to develop defenses...

And as I said above, that two-year-old brat had better develop some "survival instincts" of his/her own, or face their own personal extinction.

sabastious

Then, in the SAME post, he claims that these spiders haven't "evolved" a sense of MORALITY, yet?????

They have evolved abilties to master their environment. They are self sustaining like us. The whole point was to make a tangible point of why there is a difference between humans and animals. For some reason, homo sapien's evolved morality whereas other creatures didn't. Likely because they didn't need to.

As mP said above, things that exist on this planet were NOT placed here by some imaginary sky-daddy or specious super-energy sentient entity, just for the profit, pleasure, or alleviation of boredom of we arrogant, self-centered little humans...

Really? All life didn't come from the sky? You mean the earth just started out with land and sea?

-Sab

sabastious

Which means that "law" that you refer to, certainly isn't in effect, is it?

Yes, it is. Once a lifeform becomes intelligent it can indentify imbalances in nature that are being sorted out BY nature, which is SLOW. Humans are an exponent in the evolutionary program.

-Sab

ziddina

"Zid, the spider evolved WITH and therefore could be considered just as victorious in the game of life..." Sab, above

Dude, you're not even completing your sentences...

sabastious

Now, approaching this from a theist's viewpoint, which one has been "worked on", longer??? Hmmmm....?????

This is an argument I would use if I wanted to justify the loss of life from the child to a spider's poison. You are saying spiders are superior which they are not. Why do spiders make webs and humans have brains? Because there is purpose in the program and it naturally creates a steward class to oversee the rest. The human mind is supposed to look out after the earth. That is blatently obvious to me, that includes the tsetse flies which had a time in human history where they caused widespread death and had to be taken care of.

-Sab

sabastious

Dude, you're not even completing your sentences...

I was trying to say WITH US, not just WITH. I made the edit, sorry.

-Sab

thetrueone

The creationist idea is that prior to Adam and Eve being cast out of Paradise, all creatures were plant eating herbivores.

Then when the earthly Paradise was turned into what we have today, some animals turned into flesh eating carnivores.

Oops... but then what about all the fishes in the sea ?

Oh oh Houston we have a problem, better get back to that ancient mystical story telling where anything imaginable can happen !

ziddina

"For some reason, homo sapien's evolved morality whereas other creatures didn't. ..." Sab, above

Wrong.

Totally wrong.

Animal behaviorists have found that even dogs and cats have a sense of justice - just try scolding your dog or cat for something they DIDN'T do, and see the reactions you'll get.

Need I point out all the acts of animal altruism that are found in nature? That are nowadays available on video? Or even the tales from Greece in ancient times, of dolphins saving sailors and children from drowning?

THAT is MORALITY - but not EXCLUSIVE to humans.

The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly

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