Why aren't you an Atheist?

by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  tec

  Tammy, you don't get it. Christ, if he is the image of God, is just as bad as the God of the OT. There is no path to him without the murders of the OT. There no Christ without genocide. There is no salvation without millions dead.

  No, love, you don't get it. If HE is the image of God, then anything that contradicts that image is not of God.

  Those other things written that seem to be in conflict with the Image and Truth of God could then be:

  a) misunderstanding by us (due to the times and circumstances we would not understand, since we do not live then); ex. out of context

  b) misunderstandings by those who 'scribed' those things

  c) 'bragging' to scare enemies (especially if 'Israel' was much smaller than their 'expanded' numbers make them out to be)

  d) misunderstandings because of translation

  e) changes made over time due to any of the above reasons

  f) other things I can't even conceive of

  I know you love Jesus and say he is the only thing that counts. Unfortunately, to get to that position, you have to ignore so much of the Bible, disown so much of while simultaneously promoting so much of it that you end up having to bend it into a pretzel twist of a position so convoluted a name for it hasn't been invented yet.

  So what?

  It is not an all or nothing book. It is not inerrant. It is many books, over much passage of time, by many different authors who used history, parables, poetry, stories, revelations, etc, etc, to make their points. One can continue to try and sort through that (and either way, someone is ignoring something. You are either ignoring the good parts that are in unity with Christ and His teachings... and instead choosing the parts that depict a vengeful, frightening God. Or you are ignoring those parts... and choosing to look at the love, mercy, forgivness God, all of which IS in unity with Christ.)

  So there is no bending or pretzeling (unless you are willing to admit that you do the same, though in reverse... ignore the good to believe the bad)

  I look at Christ. Simple. Easy. Clear. No muss, no fuss. How do YOU judge which is true and which is not?

  On a completely unrelated note, I am supr jealous you went to ComiCon and I didn't. And you didn't look to shabby in that uniform. Yowza.

  You travel a lot. No reason at all you can't go to one. Paint on some abs , get a sword and a skirt thing... and be He-man ;)

  There was a He-man, actually, but I don't think his abs were painted on. He was a pretty big guy, lol.

  Or I suppose you might rather be Dr. Who? There were a few of those too.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  EntirelyPossible

  No, love, you don't get it. If HE is the image of God, then anything that contradicts that image is not of God.

  I absolutely get it. An image is not necessarily an accurate representation of what it's an image of. Funhouse mirrors are a great example. There is no reason to think Jesus is an accurate image.

  You travel a lot. No reason at all you can't go to one. Paint on some abs , get a sword and a skirt thing... and be He-man ;)

  I would go for Rory the Roman :)
• 

  NewChapter

  What I don't understand is how a person decides that their interpretation of Jesus, gleaned from the bible, is accurate, but the other parts about the bible are not accurate. One person comes along and makes the decision that it is all about Christ, and that God should be viewed through Christ, and it's okay to just dismiss portions of the bible that don't agree with their interpretation of Christ. Another person could come along and use the exact same reasoning and decide that information on Moses was accurate, and that God should be viewed through his interaction with Moses and anything that disagrees with that is simply wrong. Then the person who went with Christ will come along and say that the scriptures support choosing Christ over Moses. But the person who chose Moses could simply dismiss those scriptures----cuz they want to and have their own scriptures they prefer.

  It's so disingenous. I understand God best cuz I chose Christ---NO! I understand God best cuz I chose Christ! Well I choose Mary Magdelene! Cuz you know the scribes were screwed up, and all of the Gnostic writings were dismissed, even though Jesus is all over them and preferred Mary above all other disciples! NOOOOOOOO! I CHOOSE to follow Paul!

  It really gets ridiculous.
• 

  nicolaou

  The bible is not the Word, Image or Truth of God. God did not state... look to the bible to know the truth. He said... look at my Son

  Uh huh, and where did you read that?
• 

  sabastious

  NC the answer is that Moses was Christ.

  -Sab
• 

  NewChapter

  NC the answer is that Moses was Christ.

  Of course. You and Tec seem to greatly disagree on many points about God. And you are getting your information from the same place. It seems that believing in a god leaves one open to be profoundly misled. They must choose---and the choices are many---and the scriptures are corrupted---there is nowhere to turn for answers. There is no way to vet any of this information that comes forth.

  You see, from what I can figure about what Tec has said about God and Jesus, it would seem she negates most things we know about Moses, because Christ would not have approved of so much that Moses did and what Israel did under his leadership. Yet you say they are the same.

  The guy who said eye for eye is the same guy that said turn the other cheeck.

  The guy who wrote out rules for divorce is the same guy who said most divorces were wrong.

  The guy who said that rape victims could be sold to their assailant for the rest of their lives, was the same guy who said do unto others.

  Belief is an incredibly murky world, and I'm so happy I'm not bogged down with it anymore.

  When I came to this forum, I was an atheist, but I had a very different view of believers. As I got on here and began discussing it, my view has changed a great deal about both believers and nonbelievers. I see hostility, but different motivations. I know my hostility comes from pure frustration. The strange reasoning used by believers to fit everything into their worldview, and the nonchalance with which they just dismiss anything that challenges it. The absolute closed mindedness of it all. Like a bubble. The only things that can penetrate are approved ideas and the rest bounce off.

  I have seen such hostility from believers, it kind of blew my mind at first. And I see how believers band together. I don't see it quite as much with the nonbelievers. So many times, I see one attacked, and I don't say anything, because I'm pretty sure they can work it out. I see you coming here and calling yourself superior because you believe, I see you insult and antagonize, and when you get some back, I see Tec suggesting others should back off. But I don't see her telling you to back off. Interesting.

  I think we should back off, because you take it too seriously. But I think YOU should back off too---and I'm not convinced you are capable of doing so. You want to say whatever offensive thing you feel like, but then you want to freak out when it comes your way.

  So I do think if you can't take it, you should restrain yourself from doling it out. For your own sake.

  We have a tendency to band together, I suppose, on both sides. But it's kind of weird when people who claim to follow Christ get away with some of the crap they pull here.
• 

  still thinking

  I see my comments lead to yet another speel about what christ is and what god isn't...LOL

  Based on.....um..........opinion.

  All that babble just confirmed my point that people believe what they want to and are open to any silly idea about god, or any idea they prefer, because none can be dismissed without dismissing them ALL. Unless someone wants to stick their neck out and say that THEY alone are right and all the thousands of religions out there are wrong.......at most, all we would get is a fob off answer that maybe they ALL have some truth to them..ROFL!

  If I made a statement about what god is...I would be corrected (or guided) to believe what others want me to THINK he is. But truth be known. They don't know any more than I do. They just THINK they do.

  It's quite amusing actually. I hope there comes a day when everyone stops believing in people who spread this rubbish.
• 

  sabastious

  And you are getting your information from the same place.

  I get my information from my brain and Scripture, what are you suggesting?

  You see, from what I can figure about what Tec has said about God and Jesus, it would seem she negates most things we know about Moses, because Christ would not have approved of so much that Moses did and what Israel did under his leadership. Yet you say they are the same.

  Christ approves of all Moses did, he was the model Jew. He didn't come to abolish the law but to fulfill it because HE wrote it AS Moses.

  The guy who said eye for eye is the same guy that said turn the other cheeck.

  There is no contradiction there.

  The guy who wrote out rules for divorce is the same guy who said most divorces were wrong.

  If you get divorced you failed in your marriage. Divorce is wrong, but it sometimes is the only option because of selfishness.

  The guy who said that rape victims could be sold to their assailant for the rest of their lives, was the same guy who said do unto others.

  Because he was the new Master and slavery was going to be abolished and it was many centuries later. Rape was common back then, it wasn't as brutal as it is today. Men just assumed that they could have sex with a woman if she was a virgin. If this happened then the woman needed to be cared for instead of just f*cked and then left to become a prostitute and have a horrible life. Not enough people today equate marriage and sex, that's why we have so many problems.

  I don't see it quite as much with the nonbelievers.

  You mean like when you banded together with non believers to the point of condoning their wretched behavior?

  -Sab
• 

  Refriedtruth

  DITTO 4 me

  Christalone said-Because the WT is not God, knows nothing about God, and most that follow them have a screwed up idea of who God is and why He MUST exist. Too many JWs connect the WT with God and make it an unseperable union. The fact is, God had nothing to do with the WT to begin with and JWs ideas about who God is is also not correct.

  (I'm just commenting on why I didn't give up God when I gave up the WT. Not why I still believe in Him)
• 

  sabastious

  You want to say whatever offensive thing you feel like, but then you want to freak out when it comes your way.

  Really? This is all you have? I am very cordial with people I debate with, but if I see that they are disrepecting me I will respond in kind. Jesus said use words, not an open palm to defend yourself, which will get yourself killed at times.

  -Sab