by sir82 111 Replies latest jw friends
I don't know. Is every passing reference to suicide something that requires a pastor to call the professionals?
And you would just blow such a remark off to the winds if YOU were the pastor? People don't really threaten suicide all that often in my experience...I take it seriously when somebody does.
What the troll doesn't get is that the main point of this little elder drama video wasn't about the sister, or her depression, or even her cookies. The main point about this video was to impress upon the elders how to "shepard" the flock. How to manipulate the sheeple into serving the WTS despite their situation. They know you get more flies with honey than vinegar. If you have an insensitive jerk of an elder pissing people off, it causes people to give up. But if you sugar coat the same exact message, then you guilt people into serving no matter what their situation is.
So, let's review the video again:
They show elder number one, the insensitive clod who basically says: "Buck up little camper. Don't you know that suicide is wrong? Says so right here [book chapter verse]" Then they show the so-called sensitive elder who seems more understanding and kind, yet ends up giving the same basic message: "Buck up little camper. Look at Job. He was depressed, yet he still served God. You can be like Job too. [book chapter verse] You can be depressed and still serve the WTS".
When you think of church is there usually one instructor/overseer or not?
Not. Many Baptists churches are very similar to JWs. I've been to one and have friends that are current baptists. The way they described the strict baptist churches were very close to JWs. Rules about everything from dancing to dressing. However, even the stricter baptist churches care for its attenders. They financially help, hold food drives, get involved with causes to help others, etc...
However, you again avoided all of my questions about the WT and it's lack of physical help of others.
Ethos, I'd also like to bring up that if you are not an elder, you are not supposed to see or know what specifically happened at the elders school. You are not allowed to attend, and the elders are not allowed to record it or share their specific notes. You are not to read the elders manual. It is all confidential.
So why are you disobeying Jehovah's organization and viewing this material and contributing to an apostate conversation? Why is EVERYTHING ELSE the WT says something you believe in, but their command to stay away from apostate message boards and observe strict confidentiality regarding the elders book and school something you can just ignore?
And you would just blow such a remark off to the winds if YOU were the pastor? People don't really threaten suicide all that often in my experience...I take it seriously when somebody does.
I don't know, James, I talk about it all the time. Not seriously. Well, not all that seriously.
I wouldn't minimize someone who seemed serious, but that is the sort of judgment that regular people have to make all the time, isn't it? My daughter's boyfriend was talking like he was going to hurt himself when she broke up with him -- I didn't do anything except suggest she keep clear for a while. Was that wrong, or was I just accurate in my reading of his over-wrought claim?
I think the point is that people do not and should not depend on an elder to send them to a medical professional. That is true. They also shouldn't depend on an elder to call the police if a child has been molested.
However, the reality is that people DO go to the elders when contemplating suicide. Many rank and file do not know that it is ok to go to a medical professional. And even these elders are apparently taught to handle everything in house. The reality is that people DO go to the elders when a child has been molested, instead of going to the police because the police are part of the WORLD and the elders are part of Jehovah's ORGANIZATION.
So while people shouldn't depend on these men in these serious situations, they DO. That is the reality.
Undercover has summed it up perfectly.
Each on a case by case basis, Sulla --- but, last year just after Christmas I lost a friend who took an overdose of prescription pain killers, and I will never allow the slightest chance of any such remarks going unheeded.
(no, the lady did not say anything to me - but I wondered at the time if she had said something to somebody and they did nothing)
Oh please. The instructions to the elders is not some top secret, classified, no-one must know information. In fact, most of their information is originally referenced FROM the public WT publications that we ALL read. Elders have told me things they learned in elders school, as have pioneers have with the pioneer school. You are insinuating a distorted, unfactual portrayal of what JWs can and cannot do.
I could answer your questions but this would turn this discussion into a 10 page long debate, that I could not even begin to reply to as I've used a great deal of my allotted posts in this thread already.
