Interestingly I've seen you do and say the same things to others on other threads, EP. When someone gets aggravated over your overly simple thought and lack of skillful argument, you declare yourself the winner. I'm glad you are able to comfort yourself in your intelligence that way. Well done. I prefer discussing these issues with someone that disagrees with me, but had solid reasoning, like Terry. I'll continue with them, and let you congratulate yourself on being the winner.
Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?
by Christ Alone 317 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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prologos
ENTIRELY POSSIBLE: THINK OF GOD IF YOU WILL AS AN ETERNAL BEING, EXISTING INTO THE ENDLESS PAST BUT ALSO ALREADY INTO THE ENDLESS FUTURE. TIME IS A DIMENSION THAT BY ITSELF DOES NOT MOVE, WE ARE MOVING. GOD DOES NOT MOVE WITH US OR AHEAD OF US. THERE ARE SOME THOUGHTS ON THAT ON BEABEOREAN.COM. THE FACT THAT HE CAN PREDICT EVENTS DOES NOT MAKE THEM HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY, MAKING US ROBOTS. WE CAN RESPOND TO EVENTS AS THEY UNFOLD INTO THE FUTURE, BUT WE HAVE TO KEEP MOVING, BECAUSE THE NOW HAS ZERO LENGTH IN TIME. THANK YOU.
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tec
Why? Every "wrong" thing has been seen before it occured---and yet---allowed.
But aside from that, it is despicable to do nothing about something bad you know is about to happen that is in your power to prevent.
I'll address them both, because it is the same point.
God knows when your choices are going to lead you wrong... then warns you what you should or should not do... and you ignore this warning or teaching. Whose fault is the "wrong".
This ties back into free will. Because there is no free will if God makes you choose what he teaches you to choose.
This is still really simple. Knowing what someone is going to do... is not the same as making them do it. We see this every day around us.
Trying to convince someone that if you know what they are going to do... somehow means they did not have the freedom to choose... this requires more elaborate explanations. Because it does not make sense.
Peace,
tammy
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EntirelyPossible
When someone gets aggravated over your overly simple thought and lack of skillful argument, you declare yourself the winner. I'm glad you are able to comfort yourself in your intelligence that way. Well done. I prefer discussing these issues with someone that disagrees with me, but had solid reasoning, like Terry.
It's adorable. You guys get all grumpy and then try the Pee Wee Herman bit with, as if arguing like a 6 year old after throwing insults somehow redeems your failed argument.
I didn't declare myself winner. You did when you could put together a logically consisten argument and decided calling names was just the thing. Plus, My arguments were sound, well constructed, internally and externally consistent, stuck with the facts and didn't rely on "magic" to try to make a point. I was winning anyway.
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EntirelyPossible
THE FACT THAT HE CAN PREDICT EVENTS DOES NOT MAKE THEM HAPPEN AUTOMATICALLY, MAKING US ROBOTS.
God has never predicted anything.
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tec
We have just discussed that you don't know...but your example is that this is how god knows because he knows us.
No, you've discussed that. I DO know... based on what i know of my son.
If he already knows our choices and decicions in advance...there is no free will.
These two thoughts are not connected.
Knowing what someone will choose is not the same as making that choice for them.
I don't know how you guys even make this kind of connection. Makes no sense to me at all. None. I'm asking you guys to explain it to me. How does knowing the choice someone else is going to make... means you have taken their free will.
Peace,
tammy
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Jeffro
God knows when your choices are going to lead you wrong... then warns you what you should or should not do... and you ignore this warning or teaching. Whose fault is the "wrong".
Aside from the superficial claim that 'God warns anyone' about any specific action, the notion is also more fundamentally flawed.
Not all the 'bad' things that happen are the result of a conscious thought to do something 'wrong' or any awareness that something 'bad' will result. The only exception to this is the fairytale all-knowing all-powerful magical sky friend.
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still thinking
My mother used to think she knew everything too....how wrong she was.
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tec
My mother used to think she knew everything too....how wrong she was.
Lol... I don't know everything (about my son or anything else) and i never claimed to. It was an example to show how me knowing what choice he would make... is NOT me taking his choice from him.
Peace,
tammy
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tec
Aside from the superficial claim that 'God warns anyone' about any specific action, the notion is also more fundamentally flawed.
Even though He does do this... (with Adam, with Cain... Christ warned also)...my question was a hypothetical.
Not all the 'bad' things that happen are the result of a conscious thought to do something 'wrong' or any awareness that something 'bad' will result.
True, but all actions have consequence... even if that does not show up for some time.
The only exception to this is the fairytale all-knowing all-powerful magical sky friend.
I'm not sure what you mean here.
Peace,
tammy