by Christ Alone 317 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
So I still do not understand how you can state that knowing someone well enough to know their choice, takes away their freedom to make that choice.
I didn't say that. I am saying that is a an educated GUESS at their choice.
Answer something for me.... If God has forseen, before I was born, what I will choose for lunch today, is that set in stone? Is there any possibility I could ever choose something other than what he has forseen?
OK all this talk about what god can and cannot/will not do.
Wow it seems the beleivers are making this stuff up as they go along. They know god, they know his mind, they know what he likes and don't like, they know what makes him happy or sad. Impossible, all this amounts to is wishful thinking no facts just assumptions based on past religious programming as to the image of god.
If God has forseen, before I was born, what I will choose for lunch today, is that set in stone? Is there any possibility I could ever choose something other than what he has forseen?
I know I wasn't going to speak back, but here it goes. Middle knowledge or Molinism states that God knows all senarios and possible choices you could make. You have the freedom of choice, but of course God knows the outcome of every choice and what the outcome would have been had you made a different choice.
Molinists support their case with Christ's statement in Matthew 11:23
Wow it seems the beleivers are making this stuff up as they go along. They know god, they know his mind, they know what he likes and don't like, they know what makes him happy or sad. Impossible, all this amounts to is wishful thinking no facts just assumptions based on past religious programming as to the image of god.
They also know the Bible and what the Bible says about God. You can deny that the Bible is accurate, and that is fine. But it doesn't change the fact that if one believes it, it has a wealth of information about God's mind, what he likes and doesn't like, what makes Him happy or sad, etc...
"what he likes and doesn't like, what makes Him happy or sad, etc..."
Are we really talking about God here or a spoilt child that needs special care?
Glad,
I was thinking about Sparlock and the JW mom who says keeping this toy will make Jehovah sad. I was thinking if keeping a wizard toy will make Jehovah sad then he must be a very depressed person, because that is such a triffle to be sad over, I mean if keeping a Sparlock children's toy makes him sad I would wonder how sad he gets when far worse things happen as they do thru out the universes.
I know I wasn't going to speak back, but here it goes. Middle knowledge or Molinism states that God knows all senarios and possible choices you could make. You have the freedom of choice, but of course God knows the outcome of every choice and what the outcome would have been had you made a different choice.
That's not really foreknowledge, that's just knowing what possible choices there are. Using that definition, the flight attendant that served me lunch last week knew all possible outcomes as well.
They also know the Bible and what the Bible says about God.
Not really. For example, just yesterday some Christians kept saying what the Bible says and consistently got it wrong. Others, when it says something they don't like, claim that part isn't really scripture and it's lies. Others claims it's inerrant in every word. Others claims it's all true, you just have to know which parts are real and which are symbolic. Others add numerology on to the Bible. Others use a code to figure out the real meaning. Everyone knows, it seems, but they all know something contradicting what everyone else knows.
Are we really talking about God here or a spoilt child that needs special care?
I LOLed.
frankiespeakin Mmm...worse thing happen at sea - but then the god of the bible never went to sea.
I think I understand both sides of this, as truly it can be a philosphical point on whether foreknowledge still allows for free will. I don't see any real point in arguing it. But a really important point has already been mentioned. If God has foreknowledge, He stands by while allowing people to be lost to eternal damnation. Okay, maybe some of you can live with that since your philosophy says it is still free will.
But God also stands by while knowing that children will suffer horribly in disaster and be born with severe birth defects. (I know it's an old argument, but it really ties in to this point.)
That's why I thought this comment was so awesome: "Your argument makes about as much sense as torturing and killing puppies to make blankets for orphans. "
No matter the outcome that God knows will befall us, no matter how many are "saved" or "go to heaven" or whatever is supposed to happen to them, THE PRICE TO MANKIND AND MANY INDIVIDUALS IS TOO HIGH!!!!!!
CA - They also know the Bible and what the Bible says about God.
Just a slight correction on the above statement. You mean what ancient people made up about what they thought god was and how it would be interpreted a million different ways and eventually how all of this conjecture would eventually be called the bible.
