no.
Does God's foreknowledge take away from free will?
by Christ Alone 317 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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suavojr
CA Where do want to go with this thread? Mankind has debated this topic for centuries and we still can't agree .
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tec
I didn't say that. I am saying that is a an educated GUESS at their choice.
Would it matter if it was an educated guess, or someone looking into the future...or anything else you can think of... if the end result is the same?
Answer something for me.... If God has forseen, before I was born, what I will choose for lunch today, is that set in stone? Is there any possibility I could ever choose something other than what he has forseen?
I don't know.
But I don't think it is the point. I think it is besides the point. Give me one example in real life where I could see what you are stating here in action/practice... otherwise it is just conjecture, when there are examples of the opposite.
Does someone knowing what you are going to do... somehow mean that they made you do it?
Side note... maybe it is your nature that gives you no other choice... and not God knowing your nature. If your nature changes, then your choices can change too.
I personally am not so sure that God knows every single decision that every single person will ever make. But I think he DOES know what course we (mankind) will take, both those who belong to him and those who do not.
Peace,
tammy
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EntirelyPossible
Would it matter if it was an educated guess, or someone looking into the future...or anything else you can think of... if the end result is the same?
Yes. One is a guess, the other is seeing the future.
I think it is besides the point. Give me one example in real life where I could see what you are stating here in action/practice... otherwise it is just conjecture, when there are examples of the opposite.
An example? I asked a question. You said you didn't know. I have no idea what you are asking for an example of.
Side note... maybe it is your nature that gives you no other choice... and not God knowing your nature. If your nature changes, then your choices can change too.
Ah, the old Christian standby, blame humans, not the monster.
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tec
Yes. One is a guess, the other is seeing the future.
In what practical way does it matter... if one is always right in one's predictions/prophecy/knowing/educational guessing?
An example? I asked a question. You said you didn't know. I have no idea what you are asking for an example of.
An example of your position here. You state that foreknowledge (knowing the choice someone is going to make, before they make it)... takes away free will. Do you have an example of how that works, or is it all just a guess/opinion/hypothesis? Is there any practical way for you to show the truth of this statement?
Ah, the old Christian standby, blame humans, not the monster.
That makes no sense.
Your nature causes you to make the choices that you make.
Where, in that statement, is blame? And blame for what?
Peace,
tammy
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EntirelyPossible
In what practical way does it matter... if one is always right in one's predictions/prophecy/knowing/educational guessing?
One can be wrong at any time and potentially EVERY time, the other is NEVER supposed to be wrong.
Do you have an example of how that works, or is it all just a guess/opinion/hypothesis? Is there any practical way for you to show the truth of this statement?
Math and logic.
That makes no sense. Your nature causes you to make the choices that you make. Where, in that statement, is blame? And blame for what?
That's not what you said earlier. Do you really expect to be able to change what you said and then act as if they are the same and have me fall for it? Please.
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tec
One can be wrong at any time and potentially EVERY time, the other is NEVER supposed to be wrong.
This is just words. Supposed to be, potentially, should be...
What is the practical difference, if one is never wrong, even though one could be wrong?
Math and logic.
This is not an answer.
That's not what you said earlier. Do you really expect to be able to change what you said and then act as if they are the same and have me fall for it? Please.
Don't 'please' me, lol.
I said:
Maybe it is your nature that gives you no other choice... and not God knowing your nature.
Now if you did not understand, or chose to ignore, my point... then fine. But what you said made no sense to my statement... I did not change something and hope you would fall for it.
You have yet to show how God knowing your nature takes away your free will.
What do you think causes you to make your choices... as YOU make them?
Peace,
tammy
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Jeffro
Earlier, tec said:
What actions? Creating life and allowing us to do with that what we will?
Actions of which have not ended, and so we have not seen the end result yet.I responded:
Your argument makes about as much sense as torturing and killing puppies to make blankets for orphans.
tec replied:
I didn't make an argument. I asked a question that you did not answer, and then I commented on something. My question is still there.
You asked a leading question, wherin your argument was evident, and then you made another statement that furthered your argument. (Maybe you're confused about argument: a statement used to support a proposition, and argument: dispute.)
You've simply evaded the import of the statement by toying with semantics.
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EntirelyPossible
This is just words. Supposed to be, potentially, should be...
What is the practical difference, if one is never wrong, even though one could be wrong?
I'm sorry, please come back and debate when you are willing to use words in the correct context.
Now if you did not understand, or chose to ignore, my point... then fine. But what you said made no sense to my statement... I did not change something and hope you would fall for it.
It makes perfect sense. You just don't get it. And, I apologize, it was harsh and wrong to say you expected me to fall for something.
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tec
You asked a leading question, wherin your argument was evident, and then you made another statement that furthered your argument. (Maybe you're confused about argument: a statement used to support a proposition, and argument:dispute.)
No, it's cool. I know what you meant by argument.
I asked "what actions?"... and I did follow with a leading question. But the first remains and you did not answer that. Hard to proceed when I don't know what you mean.
I'm sorry, please come back and debate when you are willing to use words in the correct context.
What word, and what context?
It makes perfect sense. You just don't get it.
Neither do you.
And I'm not gonna be able to 'get it' unless you at least answer the questions that I am asking you.
I'm not trying to do anything more than tear apart your statement to see if it holds. Right now, it does not.
It is just a guess.
I have a feeling that you are arguing for fate... but this is not what i am arguing for.
And, I apologize, it was harsh and wrong to say you expected me to fall for something.
Thanks, and apology accepted.
Peace,
tammy