Please worship our god or he will kill you!

by snare&racket 140 Replies latest jw experiences

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  PSacramento

  I understand what you are saying EP and I apologise if I offended you or anyone else, truly that was not my intent.

  You have given me much to consider and, as always, I thank you and the other non-believers in this thread ( and DD too of course) for pointing out how you understood what I was writing.

  I think that I have been on here long enough that most know how I care about them and people in general so I hope that you can forgive me for how I have come across on stating this opinion.

  Again, to any I have offended I am truly and deeply sorry, it was not my intent.

  DD:

  So, are works efficacious or not? Are Humans able to become righteous by making righteous choices?

  Become righteous by making righteous choices?

  No, I don't think so. I think that through Christ and with His Grace we understand what is right and WITH Christ was can try to be as righteous as possible and by that I mean doing what is right out of Love and not with the intent of getting a recompense of some sort.
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  cofty

  PSac - Please go back and read your reply from the perspective of an unbeliever.

  You are still insisting that a non-xtian is not "fully human". Whatever spin you put on that disgaceful assertion makes no difference. "As god intended" is obfuscation and you know it.

  You also said that "we live to love others and to make our world a better palce" (sic)

  Do atheists not live to love others?

  Then you make it 100 times worse with this demeaning illustration.

  Much like a person that has never loved or been loved and as such has never experienced a realtionship of that sort is "missing something" YET they are still as human as anyone who HAS expereinced love.

  So an unbeliever is like somebody who has never been loved are they? I don't need to comment further on how offensive this is do I?
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  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  As I said, I'm not directing my criticism at you personally, so there is no need of any apology. It’s just that the theology you seem to hold, comes across that way sometimes. You aren’t the only person on this board that believes it either, and I’m sure plenty of people find my beliefs offensive in some way (I have to say I seem to get in more trouble with believers than anyone else).

  I have a very hard time with the way many in the church today that seem to think that if they just add Jesus to their life, that somehow their new Christian morals will make them better, than the next guy. (I know you didn't say that, but at times that's the message some people get.)

  When you talk about free will, I'd like to ask you this question, What is it about YOU, that you made this decision to believe in Christ? What is it about so many others who decide not to believe? If we all have this free will why would so many chose not to believe? Do you see where I’m going with this?

  I believe Paul when he said “as it is written: "None is righteous, no, not one; no one understands; no one seeks for God. All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

  I believe even my worship is riddled with sin. So, even as a believer, I have nothing about myself to boast about, I’m certainly no smarter or better behaved or morally superior to anyone in any way.

  I believe Christ/God is the only righteous one.

  As I read scripture, every time I see something about “a righteous man” I see Jesus, no one else and certainly not myself.
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  EntirelyPossible

  I understand what you are saying EP and I apologise if I offended you or anyone else, truly that was not my intent.

  I get that, but understand that without the argument that you are not better than everyone else even if you have the holy spirit, then what is the point of having it?

  I am not offended, BTW. Assertions about how a god a don't believe in feels about me doesn't bother me in the least.
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  Deputy Dog

  Tammy

  I'm asking you what you meant when you said: "Faith in God makes one righteous, does it not?". Then you said: "Abraham believed God and it was credited to him as righteousness". Do you think faith being credited to someone, is the same as someone being righteous?

  Were you quoting Romans 5:7? If so I'm not sure why, how does that play into this?
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  tec

  If someone is credited with righteousness, then doesn't that make them righteous? At least in that sense? (not to be confused with self-righteous) I also don't think that means they are without sin. So perhaps we are speaking of different things; or different nuances?

  Peace,

  tammy
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  Deputy Dog

  PSac

  Can you explain this a little more?

  I think that through Christ and with His Grace we understand what is right and WITH Christ was can try to be as righteous as possible and by that I mean doing what is right out of Love and not with the intent of getting a recompense of some sort.

  What does "doing what is right out of love" mean to you?

  Love for who or what and how?
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  designs

  Like the Wt. did centuries later the Apostle Paul had an idea for his new religion- after that it was all square pegs pounded into round holes.
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  Ucantnome

  Ucantnome so you are saying Adam was unrighteous before he sinned? Deputy Dog Yes! The purpose of the law (don't eat the fruit) was to expose that. Wouldn't God creating unrighteous Adam make God unrighteous?
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  Deputy Dog

  Wouldn't God creating unrighteous Adam make God unrighteous?

  NO. My God created everything.

  Isa 45:5

  I am Jehovah, and there is none else, no God besides Me; I clothed you, though you have not known Me; 6 that they may know from the rising of the sun, and to the sunset, that there is none besides Me. I am Jehovah, and there is none else; 7 forming the light and creating darkness; making peace and creating evil. I Jehovah do all these things .