Jesus and the Mosaic Law... (page 12)

mP

APOG:

Ultimately, Jesus' actions speak louder than his words. He did heal (exorcise) the Canaanite woman's daughter after testing her humility. He also explicitly revealed himself as the Messiah for the first time when speaking to the Samaritan woman at the well. Sorry, but those are not the actions of someone who was "not that nice to women".

MP:

You seem to be mixing up the action that Jesus performed and his attitude and language to her in the beginning. You can be a racist and at times still help people. The message is still there for ordinary people. We dont have magical powers, so we cant copy that aspect of this story, but there are men who did copy the part where Jesus was rude etc. Thats my point. As a claimed moral character Jesus needed have an impecable example in ALL his public exchanges taht are recorded.

mP

DD:

That's not my "logic". That's just what the bible ( in this case, James brother Jesus) says. Your argument is with the bible not "my logic".

MP: Lucky i dont live in texas because i would be ready for the death penalty.

DD

Jesus was saying in Matt 5 (" will be liable to the hell of fire ") it's worse than that. It doesn't matter where you live.

MP:
I was being silly and attempting to say that saying someone is guilty of murder because they broke a parking law is stupid. You cant give people life for murder when all they did was park in the wrong spot which is what Jesus is implying.

Deputy Dog

mp

I was being silly and attempting to say that saying someone is guilty of murder because they broke a parking law is stupid. You cant give people life for murder when all they did was park in the wrong spot which is what Jesus is implying.

You're still being silly. Jesus didn't imply anything, He said it outright. The point being the law couldn't be kept. You have no righteousness with which to pay your fine to God.

mP

DD:

You have no righteousness with which to pay your fine to God.

MP:

How do you count good righteous acts , where are the costs for bad things. THis is starting to sound like a business that the catholics ran and became very rich and was called indulgencies. This is the very nonense the protestantsare protesting against this sort of account keeping and money charging.

Im not saying im perfect but ive never sinned, no rapes, no murders, no bank robberies and im pretty sure most of society is just the same.

Deputy Dog

mP

How do you count good righteous acts , where are the costs for bad things.

The question has nothing to do with me. You should be asking; How does God "count good righteous acts"?

THis is starting to sound like a business that the catholics ran and became very rich and was called indulgencies. This is the very nonense the protestantsare protesting against this sort of account keeping and money charging.

Money has nothing to do with righteousness. The only source of righteous is God

Im not saying im perfect but ive never sinned, no rapes, no murders, no bank robberies and im pretty sure most of society is just the same.

Have you ever lied? Called someone a name? Fornicate? Waste time, steal from work? They're sins too.

mP

How do you count good righteous acts , where are the costs for bad things.

DD:The question has nothing to do with me. You should be asking; How does God "count good righteous acts"?

MP: THis is starting to sound like a business that the catholics ran and became very rich and was called indulgencies. This is the very nonense the protestantsare protesting against this sort of account keeping and money charging.

DD: Money has nothing to do with righteousness. The only source of righteous is God

MP: Im not saying im perfect but ive never sinned, no rapes, no murders, no bank robberies and im pretty sure most of society is just the same.

DD: Have you ever lied? Called someone a name? Fornicate? Waste time, steal from work? They're sins too.

--

MP:

Im sorry buying animals for sacrifice and giving gold to the temple were monetary fines.

Show me where Fornication or adultery is a crime, and ill show you a dozen places where heroes fornicate to their hearts content and god still loves them.

King Davids crime was he killed the husband, not that he screwed his wife. If we read Nathans parable thats basically teh core element in the story. David is taking the woman from a man not that he is screwing her.

King Saul and Samuel roll around naked in Chronicles all night, and they were prophecying according to the text. I can find the scirpture if you want late ron.

Stealing time from work is not a crime, thats stupid. Ive never heard of anybody going to jail for stealing time from work. No boss can call the police for that. No where in the Bible does it say stealing time is a crime.

I just checked the 613 laws in the OT and no where does it say lying is a sin. The closest is when being a witness to court, but ive never been to court and have never lied there, so i have not broken that law. Technicality sure, but thats what it says.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot

To swear in God's Name to confirm the truth when deemed necessary by court — Deut. 10:20

prologos

One aspect of the pentateuch was FULFILLED by both Jesus the Nazareen and the WT BtS:

Jesus: Deuteronomy 18. verse 15 - 19.:--"-- Prophet from your own midst, from your brothers-----God will raise up for you-- to him you-should listen---"

Gal 3: 23-25 Law a tutor leading to Christ. now Christians are under Christ, not the Tutor.

WT BtS: Deutr 18:20--"--Prophet PRESUMES to speak in my name --That what I have NOT COMMANDED-- 22: --- the word does NOT OCCUR or COME TRUE--- You must not get frightened of him"

In both cases the law is fulfilled. Fully. Period.

Still, where does the talking snake fit into this?

mP

ProLogos:

Jesus: Deuteronomy 18. verse 15 - 19.:--"-- Prophet from your own midst, from your brothers-----God will raise up for you-- to him you-should listen---"

MP:

There were many prophets before and after that the people listened too. Thi sis hardly a unique achievement. More people today listen to those frauds on tv than ever listened to jesus in his day simply because there are more people on earth today.

PRO:

Gal 3: 23-25 Law a tutor leading to Christ. now Christians are under Christ, not the Tutor.

MP:

Again i ask how does a law point to a person, how can you achieve a law ? If law refers to the Torah which contains the law of Moses then jesus did not forfill that because Moses contains no prophecies. You are mixing the prophets which are not in the torah. I have given links to the 613 laws in the torah and none are prophecies.

Galatians is a riddle that makes no sense.

mP

PRO

WT BtS: Deutr 18:20--"--Prophet PRESUMES to speak in my name --That what I have NOT COMMANDED-- 22: --- the word does NOT OCCUR or COME TRUE--- You must not get frightened of him"

In both cases the law is fulfilled. Fully. Period.

MP:

Jesus promised his audience that they would se his kingdom and unless the Judea under Vespasian was his kingdom, he lied.

The Muslims say that scripture is talking about Mohammad and it would appear he is ticks more boxes than jesus.

Jesus

For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. -- Acts 3:22-24

Muhammad

The prophet described in the above verse must have the following three characteristics:

He will be like Moses.
He will come from the brothers of the Israelites, i.e. the Ishmaelites.
God will put his words in the mouth of the prophet and he will declare what God commanded him.

Let us see which prophet God was speaking of.

The prophet like Moses
Some people feel that this prophecy refers to the prophet Jesus, on whom be peace. But, although Jesus (peace be upon him and all of God's prophets and messengers) was truly a prophet of God, he is not the prophet spoken of here. He was born miraculously, and finally God raised him up miraculously. On the other hand, Muhammad is more like Moses; both were born in a natural way and both died natural deaths.
From among the Ishmaelite
Abraham had two sons, Ishmael and Isaac (Genesis, chapter 21). Ishmael became the grandfather of the Arab nation. And Isaac became the grandfather of Jewish nation. The prophet spoken of was to come not from among the Jews themselves, but from among their brothers, the Ishmaelite. Muhammad a descendant of Ishmael, is indeed that prophet.
God will put his words in his mouth
Neither the content of the revelation, nor its form, were of Muhammad's devising. Both were given by the angel, and Muhammad's task was only to repeat what he heard" (World Religions from Ancient history to the Present, by Geoffrey Parrinder, p.472).
God sent the angel Gabriel to teach Muhammad the exact words that he should repeat to the people. The words are therefore not his own; they did not come from his own thoughts, but were put into his mouth by the angel. These are written down in the Qur'an word for word, exactly as they came from God.
Now that we know that prophet we must listen to him, for, according to the Bible, God says: 'I will punish anyone who refuses to obey him' (Good News Bible, Deut. 18:19).

prologos

mp. yes !Deutr. 18 has been fulfilled many times as I mentioned. only 2 examples suffice.

amazing the yearn we spin out of the original sin.

Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

Jesus

Muhammad

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