Jesus and the Mosaic Law... (page 7)

mP

TEC

Romans 10:4

"For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God." NLT

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." NIV

Galatians 3:24

"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith."

mP:

Galatians mentioned the law , it doesnt say anything about cancelling or replacing it. Why do you dishonestly refer to scriptures like this that dont come close to mentioning replacement or cancellation of Moses law ? The only way you can answer my challenge is to start with your own made up stuff and never quote. Surely theres a quote in teh scriptures that says what you claim ?

It would appear that that in the above two variations of Romans10:4, somebody is playing with the text because the NLT does not say end at all. Either way both do not give a replacement.

AS i have stated previously considering what a big move this was, why didnt Jesus say it himself ?

mP

Ding:

mP,

The Mosaic law was given to the Jews, not to Gentiles. But for neither group was it the way of salvation. It's not that there's something wrong with the law; it's that there's something wrong with us.

mP:

YOu are repeating xian apologetics. Provide scriptures from jesus that back these claims. There are none, i am well aware of what xians claims, that doesnt make it actually bible based. Its amazing that in your reply you have not included a single word from Jesus mouth directly.

Paul himself in the above text does not tell us the law is over, and he doesnt mention a replacement.

soontobe

Your background commentary is all trueand very interesting, but that doesnt conflict with my original assertion. Jesus only preached to the Jews and he never cancelled or replaced the Torah.

So, even if that is true, what is your point? His early followers clearly did.

What proof do you have they were gentle xians ? How can you call them gentle when a large portion of them wont even eat with gentiles simply because of their race ?

It is in the text. And as Deputy Dog kindly pointed out, it included Jews as well.

By the way, it is GENTILE, not GENTLE. Don't lose the plot.

mP

Soon:

So, even if that is true, what is your point? His early followers clearly did.

mp:

Not quite, they argued amongst themselves until things changed. If jesus told them to preach to non jews they would not have been having the arguments with Paul. The fact they changed does not change the what Jesus originally said.

soon:

By the way, it is GENT I LE, not GENTLE. Don't lose the plot.

mp: Sorry i type fast i dont correct typos on boards, everybody know what i meant.

soontobe

No they didnt. I can come up with counter arguments against this.

OK. Shoot.

mP

MP: No they didnt. I can come up with counter arguments against this.

Soon: OK. Shoot.

Ive updated my previous post to address. Peter had fights w/ Paul about this very matter. Apparently they originally thought something much different but time dictates that things may change, so they did. It does not change my assertion that Jesus only came for the jews etc.

soontobe

Ive updated my previous post to address. Peter had fights w/ Paul about this very matter. Apparently they originally thought something much different but time dictates that things may change, so they did. It does not change my assertion that Jesus only came for the jews etc.

Jesus never forbid his disciples going to the Gentiles. If he did, show me. Jesus came to Israel, but he is recorded as saying that his disciples would go to the whole world.

Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2028:19&version=NIV

And sure, Paul had issues with Peter's behavior, but that does not mean they were in disagreement on accepting Gentiles. Who is recorded as baptising the first Gentile Christian, Cornelius? Peter wasn't perfect by any means. He had a history of caving to peer pressure. He did so after Gethsemane outside of the building where Jesus was being tried by the Sanhedrin for example.

And, as I mentioned earlier, the issue was hammered out at a council in Jerusalem, which included Peter, Paul, and other early Christian leaders.

What is Peter recorded as saying there?

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15&version=NIV

The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10

mP

Soon:

Jesus never forbid his disciples going to the Gentiles. If he did, show me.

mp:
i never said he did, i said that Jesus dictate quite clearly on multiple occasions that he only came for the jews and instructed his followers to do the same. The exception to thi sis of course Mat 24:14 but that is contrary to the multiple times he said the opposite.

Soon:
And, as I mentioned earlier, the issue was hammered out at a council in Jerusalem, which included Peter, Paul, and other early Christian leaders.
What is Peter recorded as saying there?
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts+15&version=NIV
The apostles and elders met to consider this question. 7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: “Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe. 8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. 9 He did not discriminate between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith. 10

mp:

You are assuming that there are no contradictory records in the NT.

A quick look but this has Peter complaining that he didnt want to eat with gentiles. How can you preach to someone if you wont eatwith them ? Mighty strange. Im sorry a bit weak but im sure i could find a better example.

Acts 11:1-3 says:

The apostles and the believers throughout Judea heard that the Gentiles also had received the word of God. So when Peter went up to Jerusalem, the circumcised believers criticized him and said, "You went into the house of the uncircumcised and ate with them."

soontobe

i never said he did, i said that Jesus dictate quite clearly on multiple occasions that he only came for the jews and instructed his followers to do the same.

But he clearly did not. I just cited one example from Matthew 28. He may himself have come to Israel alone, but he did not instruct that for his followers.

A quick look but this has Peter complaining that he didnt want to eat with gentiles. How can you preach to someone if you wont eatwith them ? Mighty strange. Im sorry a bit weak but im sure i could find a better example.

Like I said, Peter was a flawed person. He denied Jesus the night before his death. He also caved to pressure from other Jews. Peter, Peter, Peter. Whatever are we going to do with you?

And yet, he is recorded as performing the first baptism of non-Jews, and there is also his statement at Acts 15 which I cited earlier. Both are evidence contrary to what you are saying.

So no, your assertion that Jesus did not intend for his teachings to go beyond other Jews does not hold together. There is is clear evidence that this is not the case. We have Jesus own recorded words, and recorded actions of Peter and others.

tec

Why do you dishonestly refer to scriptures like this that dont come close to mentioning replacement or cancellation of Moses law ?

Really?

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Peace,

tammy

Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

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