Jesus and the Mosaic Law... (page 4)

PSacramento

You keep saying tha Jesus says the law is perfect, where?

As for annuled, He says it here:

19 Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and teaches others to do the same, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

The passage of "fullfilment" is this:

17 “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18 For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.

Now the issue is does Christ mean fullfill the prophets AND the Law or just the the prophets?

That depends on your view of WHY the Laws were given.

Deputy Dog

mP:

First of all, I'm NOTData Dog

Please read my commentary in all its context. My point is the law of Moses is a set of social, religous and other regulations. It in no way defines prophecy or who the Messiah is. It makes no sense to claim Jesus forfilled the Torah. Even he did, that doesnt mean the law is cancelled. There is no direction in the OT that says this. Many people today , including you and me probabaly never break a law in our home countries, that doesnt mean they are wiped... thats nonsense .

I gave you an OT quote that said otherwise. (Jeremiah 23:5,6) You choose to ignore it, I guess on the basis that it is prophetic in nature.

Saying Jesus 'fulfilled the law' is not saying that it is ‘cancelled’, particularly for the unbeliever who claims he can keep it. It is still the only righteous basis for acceptance in GOD’s kingdom (or Theocracy as in the OT).

However, you are foolish if you think anyone (other than Christ) could keep it.

PSacramento

PSac

Jesus did not abolish the Law, yet He "cleared" up HOW the Law was being kept for "it's own sake" instead of the sake of Israel.

So you think the law could be kept? If so what would one need Jesus for?

Sorry DD, I missed this.

I think that the difficult of keeping the Law was very clear, and made even more so by how some made it even MORE legalistic ( as the case of the Sabbath law and what could be done, how far one could travel, etc).

I think that Paul is correct when He said that without the Law, sin would not be able to be "quantified" ( paraphrasing of course).

They needed the Laws to point TO the Messiah, to point to what was unrighteous.

Can the LAW be kept? not for the sake of salvation.

I don't know of anyone in the bible that was shown to keep ALL the laws.

Pterist

Israel's moral, civil and ceremonially laws were based on a bi-lateral contract with the nation of Israel. Gods moral laws holds the whole world accountable.. Romans 1&2

The book of Hebrews is a beautiful piece of literature that shows how the ceremonially laws were just a shadow of the realties in Christ. The civil laws were an earthly theoracy, such as stoning people to death for adultery etc...I think we have moved on here. Maybe not in Moslem theocracies. !

......If Gods moral law is not fully satisfied, (100% every day) then there is no one in a righteous standing with Him, and hence no relationship with God. Jesus accomplished this righteousness, As a man he led a perfect righteous life. This accomplishment was NOT for his perfection, he already was and is divine. This accomplishment of fullfilling all Gods requirements was for MANKIND. Mankind now has an offer NOT just to obey moral laws but WAY beyond this. Mankind has an offer in Christ to be like HIM, through his righteousness working in us. That's why it is called a great salvation, because it's way beyond a sinner like me and you to achieve as flawed disfuctional mortals..... Hebrews 2:6-18...

The mosaic law had its glory but far inferior to the ultimate glory it foreshadowed 2 Corinthians 3:7-18

Shalom

PSacramento

I guess that issue is what did Jesus mean when he said he came to fullfill that law and so forth.

As here in Luke:

25 And He said to them, “O foolish men and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken! 26 Was it not necessary for the Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory?” 27 Then beginning with Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning Himself in all the Scriptures. 44 Now He said to them, “These are My words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things which are written about Me in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.” SOem say that Chriust fullfilled because only HE was able to be perfect by the Law: Christ fulfilled the demands of the Mosaic law, which called for perfect obedience under threat of a “curse” Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/abolish-fulfill-law.html#ixzz2MgFSle9W

Deputy Dog

mP:

A baby who cant walk cant break any law. One needs mobilitty so one can cause harm, and one needs to be able to talk to slander or say the wrong thing.You cant seriously tell me any of the 613 laws can be broken by a baby. Thats stupid.Of course if im wrong give me an example .. the link below lists all 613 laws of Moses.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments

OK, call me stupid! Are you saying babies can't covet or be self-centered? Why do they throw tantrums? Do babies love God with all their heart soul and mind or love their neighbor as themselves?

Taken from your http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Commandments

Do Babies

LOVE GOD? To love Him — Deut. 6:5

FEAR GOD? To fear Him — Deut. 10:20

There are many Laws that they don’t ‘do’ or keep.

tec

mP, I put the following on the other thread you have addressed to me.

Again, no description of the law being perfect:

Matt 5:17-18 "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not even the smallest detail of God's law will disappear until its purpose is achieved. Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose."

The prophets pointed to Christ, and the law was a tutor until Christ came. We do not look 'back' at something that did not save. We look at the one who DOES save.

Romans 10:4

"For Christ has already accomplished the purpose for which the law was given. As a result, all who believe in him are made right with God." NLT

"Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes." NIV

Galatians 3:24

"So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith."

You should read the whole of Galatians 3. Lots about the purpose of the law in that.

Peace,

tammy

Deputy Dog

PSac

I think that the difficult of keeping the Law was very clear, and made even more so by how some made it even MORE legalistic ( as the case of the Sabbath law and what could be done, how far one could travel, etc).

That's why and how Jesus did the same thing to the pharisees. He made it simpler to understand how impossible it was for them to keep.

PSacramento

Indeed DD, YET the law was need to point the way to human failings AND in particular, Israel's failings as a theocratic nation.

Pterist

Tammy *** and the law was a tutor until Christ came ***

I love that scripture. It gives imagery of a nursery or more accurately as the Greek word pedagogue suggests a teacher in a formal setting. When the children matured it was time to me Daddy and their predestined inheritance Ephesians 1:5

Shalom.

Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

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