Jesus and the Mosaic Law...

by mP 128 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mP
    mP

    PRO:

    mp. yes !Deutr. 18 has been fulfilled many times as

    MP:

    You still have not explained how jesus forfilled the law. THe law says you must not murder, worship idols etc, there are 613 of these laws. Thres no prophecy in the law, its only filled with stuff you should or shoudnt do. Show me a prophecy in the Torah any prophecy that Jesus forfilled. Scripture please.

    On a side note!

    I have never given a false prophecy either does that mean i qualify as the messsiah !!!

    PRO:

    amazing the yearn we spin out of the original sin.

    mP

    Well you cant read, theres no prophecy in Moses law. There may be prophecies in the books of the prophets but not in the first 5 books written by Moses.

  • mP
    mP

    PRO:

    YOu failed to address the broken prophecy about the kingdom coming in the generation of the audience that jesus spoke too.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    mP

    Im sorry buying animals for sacrifice and giving gold to the temple were monetary fines.

    And that is exactly the reason Jesus died. He was the perfect sacrifice, offered to those whom he loved.

    Heb 7:27 He has no need, like those high priests, to offer sacrifices daily, first for his own sins and then for those of the people, since he did this once for all when he offered up himself.

    Heb 9:11 But when Christ appeared as a high priest of the good things that have come, then through the greater and more perfect tent (not made with hands, that is, not of this creation) 12 he entered once for all into the holy places, not by means of the blood of goats and calves but by means of his own blood, thus securing an eternal redemption.

    Heb 9:24 For Christ has entered, not into holy places made with hands, which are copies of the true things, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God on our behalf. 25 Nor was it to offer himself repeatedly, as the high priest enters the holy places every year with blood not his own, 26 for then he would have had to suffer repeatedly since the foundation of the world. But as it is, he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.

    Heb 10:10 And by that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 11 And every priest stands daily at his service, offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. 12 But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God, 13 waiting from that time until his enemies should be made a footstool for his feet. 14 For by a single offering he has perfected for all time those who are being sanctified. 15 And the Holy Spirit also bears witness to us; for after saying, 16 "This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws on their hearts, and write them on their minds," 17 then he adds, "I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds no more."

    You keep trying to justify yourself by telling me that stealing from your boss or lying aren’t sins against God, when you know they are. Why do you lie to yourself?

    Then you say:

    Show me where Fornication or adultery is a crime, and ill show you a dozen places where heroes fornicate to their hearts content and god still loves them.

    King Davids crime was he killed the husband, not that he screwed his wife. If we read Nathans parable thats basically teh core element in the story. David is taking the woman from a man not that he is screwing her.

    King Saul and Samuel roll around naked in Chronicles all night, and they were prophecying according to the text. I can find the scirpture if you want late ron.

    And all that is making MY point. All men sin. All men need a Savior and a Mediator, between God the Father and man. Jesus died to be the perfect sacrifice for all time for those whom he loved and who believed in Him.

    I just checked the 613 laws in the OT and no where does it say lying is a sin. The closest is when being a witness to court, but ive never been to court and have never lied there, so i have not broken that law. Technicality sure, but thats what it says.

    There you go again, trying to add words to the bible. Putting words in God’s mouth is a sin as well. It says nothing about “court” you are inserting that into the text yourself.

  • mP
    mP

    DD:

    You keep trying to justify yourself by telling me that stealing from your boss or lying aren’t sins against God, when you know they are. Why do you lie to yourself?

    Then you say:

    MP:

    Show me where Fornication or adultery is a crime, and ill show you a dozen places where heroes fornicate to their hearts content and god still loves them.

    King Davids crime was he killed the husband, not that he screwed his wife. If we read Nathans parable thats basically teh core element in the story. David is taking the woman from a man not that he is screwing her.

    King Saul and Samuel roll around naked in Chronicles all night, and they were prophecying according to the text. I can find the scirpture if you want late ron.

    MP -> DD

    Im sorry you are conflating our modern wrongs and laws with moses list. Not one of the items ( steal time etc) are wrong according to moses, there fore i have not sinned.

    DD

    And all that is making MY point. All men sin. All men need a Savior and a Mediator, between God the Father and man. Jesus died to be the perfect sacrifice for all time for those whom he loved and who believed in Him.

    MP: Im sorry i have not sinned, neither have most or all of this board. Most of what you think are sins are not wrongs in Moses list. If we are too judge the need for Jesus based on sins, which are defined by the law of Moses then we need to verify that what your claiming is correct.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_mitzvot
    • I will admit that i have stolen time from the boss, and now show me which law of Moses this breaks ?
      • Wasting time at work is not theft, i can relax if im not busy the work gets done so who is complaining.
      • The concept of payment by time is not alluded to in anyway by Moses, just like driving regulations are not.
    • Repeat again for fornication, where is that a wrong ? Xians can say whatever they want but its not in Moses list, they have just made that up.
    When you address these two i will continue with the second portion of your question, because without sin, i dont need a mediator. THen again neither do you or anyone else.
  • mP
    mP

    MP->DD: I just checked the 613 laws in the OT and no where does it say lying is a sin. The closest is when being a witness to court, but ive never been to court and have never lied there, so i have not broken that law. Technicality sure, but thats what it says.

    DD->MP:

    There you go again, trying to add words to the bible. Putting words in God’s mouth is a sin as well. It says nothing about “court” you are inserting that into the text yourself.

    To swear in God's Name to confirm the truth when deemed necessary by court — Deut. 10:20

    http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0510.htm#20

    20 Thou shalt fear the LORD thy God; Him shalt thou serve; and to Him shalt thou cleave, and by His name shalt thou swear.

    From the text it says tel the truth if you are swearing in Gods name. Im talking to you and dont swear anything, and lie then thats fine as i have not sworn in GOds name. SOrry to be technical but thats what it says.

    Show me where it says in the list is wrong to LIE AT ANY TIME.

  • Deputy Dog
    Deputy Dog

    mP

    From the text it says tel the truth if you are swearing in Gods name. Im talking to you and dont swear anything, and lie then thats fine as i have not sworn in GOds name. SOrry to be technical but thats what it says.

    Show me where it says in the list is wrong to LIE AT ANY TIME.

    I don't have to SHOW you anything, I already know I'm a sinner. Who are you trying to fool, you already know you are guilty. God has shown YOU. If you would be honest with yourself you would admit how wicked you are.

    Have you ever coveted ANYTHING?

    Deu 5:21 "'And you shall not covet your neighbor's wife. And you shall not desire your neighbor's house, his field, or his male servant, or his female servant, his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.'

    I can't help but chuckle (you are a real comedian), as a law enforcement officer you can't begin to imagine how many times I’ve seen people show up in court thinking they will beat the judge on a “technicality”.

    And you think you have defeated God on a leagal issue? HAHAHAHAHA! I'm sure you are joking.

    So, do you think that by your "righteous nature" God owes you something now?

  • mP
    mP

    DD:

    I have never covetted anything my neighbour has because they are often old people and dont have anything cool. However yes i do see stuff on TV and in shops.

    As a policeman and im sure you appreciate jurisdiction and details. Im not in Judea, nor am i jewish. I cannot be guilty of anything against it, as the law specifically says its only for the nation of Israel. The same goes for nearly everyone else. At best Jesus could only die for jews, which he himself confirmed many times with statements that he only came to save jews.

    I await your reply.

  • tec
    tec

    At best Jesus could only die for jews, which he himself confirmed many times with statements that he only came to save jews.

    He came FIRST for Israel. (the Jews are only two portions of Israel - Judah and Benjamin) The Samaritans are also Israel, and even if people have forgotten where the lost ten tribes of Israel ARE, God knows where each one of them is, even today. But the covenant was with Israel, so Christ came first for them... when they rejected Him, the new covenant was formed with those who would produce the fruit of the Kingdom.

    "Therefore, I tell you that the Kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to people who will produce its fruit." Matt 21:43

    "This cup is the new covenant in my blood which is poured out for you." Luke 22:20

    "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:54

    Christ then also gave the holy spirit TO the gentiles, showing that the covenant was open to ALL who had faith in Him. (though he had already shown this by healing some who were NOT of Israel because of their faith) He sent Peter to Cornelius and his family, bringing the Gentiles INTO the covenant. The vision Christ gave to Peter, the pouring out of the spirit; that is all described in Acts 10

    Peace,

    tammy

  • mP
    mP

    TEC

    The problem is all the scroptures you quote are directed at Jews. Paul and Peter had many arguments over this and this is recorded for us in Acts etc.

    IM sorry if this really happened the way you claim, jesus should have said so. If we are going to believe Paul, we should also believe Mohammad. Then again do you believe Pauls statement that women are not equal to men ? Was that later statement really from God or was he just making stuff up ?

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